Question Power Sound Audio (PSA) help needed

tim1982

Active Member
Hello All

After a few months of tinkering around I admit defeat and come begging for your help, I own a PSA S1800 subwoofer but I just cant get it dialed in correctly. It comes across as boomy, If I mess with the settings it either boomy or turned off! I consider my room to be small but when I change the dial on the sub to large room its less boomy and blends a bit better. Ive never had a sub were the dial goes past 120hz on the sub so just automatically assumed the higher setting of 150hz is the best.

What im working with:
Room is 13 foot by 13 foot by 8 foot ceilings
Subwoofer is corner loaded but angled inwards towards the MLP, not much choice as its a big boy and no other space
Dials on the back are set to: crossover 150hz, room size large, volume at half way point, delay 0
AVR crossover 120hz with a DB trim of -3db
My MLP is a corner sofa on the opposite corner of the room

Are there any owners out there that would mind guiding me through some simple steps to help improve my sound, barely anything online.

I have a basic understanding of electrics but things like REW are waaaaaaay out of my comfort zone
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
Does seem like quite a high gain for a relatively small room.. well especially compared to my experience with PSA subs, my two are around 9 o'clock and the single s1500 wasn't much higher, but the s1800 may be different. But if your AVR is giving a sub trim of 0 then maybe not.. It is Audyssey you're using isn't it? What AVR do you have?

The only real way to tell is to measure your response, with REW. It's a lot easier to use than it used to be, just get a UMIK-1 mic and you're good to go
 

tim1982

Active Member
Does seem like quite a high gain for a relatively small room.. well especially compared to my experience with PSA subs, my two are around 9 o'clock and the single s1500 wasn't much higher, but the s1800 may be different. But if your AVR is giving a sub trim of 0 then maybe not.. It is Audyssey you're using isn't it? What AVR do you have?

The only real way to tell is to measure your response, with REW. It's a lot easier to use than it used to be, just get a UMIK-1 mic and you're good to go
From my limited knowledge I always assumed you set the sub to 12 and decreased the db in the avr, I did try turning the gain down to around 10 o'clock but that just killed the bass all together.

Maybe I need to invest in a room Mic and see what's what, but my problem will be I won't have a clue how to fix nulls and peaks that show up, I've read there is something you can buy but that's £200+ :eek:
 

Conrad.

Active Member
What sort of volume level are you listening at and what are your main speakers?
For reference, both my S3000 and S3600 are under 9 o'clock. It's a smaller room and I've got four drivers, sure, but even with one sub 9 o'clock is enough.

(that said, the gain dial on the sub isn't a volume control, it's designed to match the input and output levels so a like for like comparison is only partly valid when the receiver is different).

You say you don't have much choice about placement, I use my S3000 as a center speaker stand with equipment stacks on both side (no media unit). That may well not work for you, but center along the front wall might give you a better response. Also try rotating the sub. It might not look pretty but it could affect the response, pointing into the corner or against one of the walls. Walk around the room when you have bass heavy material playing and see if the bass changes as you move, that'll give you some idea of how it's capable of sounding.

You said that REW is beyond you, but it might be worth looking at the room simulator to see what you might be getting, that bit's fairly easy and there are plenty of people that can help. A corner loaded 18" sub in a square room though, it's very possible you're sat in a room mode. Which corner of the room is the sub in and where do you sit? Any photos or a layout diagram?
 

fatboy frank

Well-known Member
I run a pair of PSA S1811's and the gain on both of them is barely over 9 o'clock, both corner loaded, one at the front right and the other rear left and my room isn't much bigger than yours.
 

tim1982

Active Member
What sort of volume level are you listening at and what are your main speakers?
For reference, both my S3000 and S3600 are under 9 o'clock. It's a smaller room and I've got four drivers, sure, but even with one sub 9 o'clock is enough.

(that said, the gain dial on the sub isn't a volume control, it's designed to match the input and output levels so a like for like comparison is only partly valid when the receiver is different).

You say you don't have much choice about placement, I use my S3000 as a center speaker stand with equipment stacks on both side (no media unit). That may well not work for you, but center along the front wall might give you a better response. Also try rotating the sub. It might not look pretty but it could affect the response, pointing into the corner or against one of the walls. Walk around the room when you have bass heavy material playing and see if the bass changes as you move, that'll give you some idea of how it's capable of sounding.

You said that REW is beyond you, but it might be worth looking at the room simulator to see what you might be getting, that bit's fairly easy and there are plenty of people that can help. A corner loaded 18" sub in a square room though, it's very possible you're sat in a room mode. Which corner of the room is the sub in and where do you sit? Any photos or a layout diagram?
From what you and others have said I definetly have the gain up too high, thatll be the 1st thing I change when im home.

To answer your questions, I do enjoy my volume loud (not deafing loud) so have my AVR at around 55-60 (for some odd reason my Onkyo doesnt have a setting that changes the volume to DB, trust me ive looked) and my main speakers are Monitor Audio bronze 2 L/R and MA silver centre (dialled in so they all match all though not fully timber matched).

Sadly using my sub as a centre stand is not an option due to the amount of equipment I have and mainly keeping the wife happy! I did look into bulding a custom stand with a gap underneath that the sub could slot into so it was dead centre of my TV but its a bit beyond my skills :(

Before I had the S1800 I had an SVS PB1000 and I had that along my front wall but as this is so much bigger and deeper it sticks out to far, I may have a try though as at least I can rule it out if it doesnt work :smashin:

My sub is in the left hand front corner and I sit in the rear right hand side approx 12 foot away, I have it toed towards me as when it was flush with the wall it rattled my radiator, pictures, etc, etc and aslo the bass just wasnt there. I have watched some REW videos on YouTube and understand how it works but, correct me if im wrong, REW just tells you what your room peaks and nulls are doing but there isnt a way to actually do anything about it unless a) you have a sub that has a digital display such as the SVS higher end line or b) you have a device that can calibrate the nulls/peaks for you (ive seen them on amazon for around £200 but cant for the life of me recall what there called!).
 

Conrad.

Active Member
Looking at room sim in REW you're probably getting a 40Hz boom which might be muddying things.Here are two screenshots of REW's room sim that show what a difference in position might make:

Imgur

You don't need to toe-in subs, they're not directional so having it square with the walls and pointing either way won't make too much difference according to the sim. If it's rattling things though, then that's a different story.

You're exactly right, REW is a measurement tool and doesn't actually affect anything in the room. What it does is allow you to generate filters that you can plug in to any EQ device to adjust the frequency response in room. Some processors have this built in, as do some subs (SVS, Velodyne). Or you can buy add on modules, the most popular of which are probably the antimode and the MiniDSP 2x4HD. They sit between the processor and sub and affect the input signal so that the sub ends up with a flat response in-room.

The usual advised order is:
1. Room placement (may or may not be achievable)
2. Room treatments (tough to do in a non-dedicated room, especially for bass frequencies)
3. Integration (phase, distance/delay, crossover)
4. EQ
 

andym81

Active Member
I suspect some of the issues you are haven is due to Onkyos garbage room eq, which from what I remember doesn't eq your sub, I had similar issues with an svs sub a few years back. Changed to a denon x4300 made all the difference
 

paulst10

Distinguished Member
Oops forget to answer you question, I have an onkyo txnr676e that's uses RoomEq
I see they no-longer use Audyssey and have their own AccuEQ.. not too sure how effective that is when it comes to eq'ing a subwoofer?

correct me if im wrong, REW just tells you what your room peaks and nulls are doing but there isnt a way to actually do anything about it unless a) you have a sub that has a digital display such as the SVS higher end line or b) you have a device that can calibrate the nulls/peaks for you (ive seen them on amazon for around £200 but cant for the life of me recall what there called!).
You're probably thinking of an Antimode which is standalone EQ device, but that isn't really compatible with REW filters, you'd need something like a MiniDSP for that. But yes REW will only measure your current response, so at least you know what's going on with the room, which is what you need to know. Also as Conrad suggested, try the Room Sim in REW, you don't need a mic, just put the dimensions of your room into it, add the sub and seating position and it'll give you idea on your response before EQ.. REW - Room EQ Wizard Room Acoustics Software
 

tim1982

Active Member
Thanks everyone I have some new ideas to try out, will give REW room sim a try and also try placing it along my front wall.

Off on holiday tomorrow so will try on my return and let you all know what happens

Really appreciate the input
 

tim1982

Active Member
20190817_145515.jpg

20190817_145534.jpg


A very quick play around and this is whats coming back, to be honest its not as bad as I thought it would be :rotfl:
 

Conrad.

Active Member
There are other factors likely at play. If you have hard floors and bare walls you’ll get ringing and long delay times especially on that 42hz peak. But yeah, not dreadful. I’ve has much worse!

I think the -3db figure is a lot lower for an s1800. Closer to 17hz I think.
 

tim1982

Active Member
There are other factors likely at play. If you have hard floors and bare walls you’ll get ringing and long delay times especially on that 42hz peak. But yeah, not dreadful. I’ve has much worse!

I think the -3db figure is a lot lower for an s1800. Closer to 17hz I think.
Carpeted floors and pictures on most walls, 3 out 4 walls are solid brick, had no idea what the -3db thing was so just left it alone but thanks will change that now
 

Conrad.

Active Member
Specs for your sub (our very close to it) are here: S1801

-3db is at 17hz, same as the 15 and dual 15 or 18 models.

all it means is, if you play a sweep through the sub in an anechoic chamber or outside it’ll give a flat frequency response. The -3db measurement is the frequency where our drops 3db from the flat line. So if the flat response is at 85db the -3 figure is where the response falls away to 82db.

upload_2019-8-17_19-29-44.png


In that image the response is 100db down to about 22Hz where it’s -3db.
 

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