Power is just pointless...

Discussion in 'General Video Gaming Chat' started by pointon, Dec 16, 2001.

  1. pointon

    pointon
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    ... if there are no games to go with it.

    As entertaining as it's been, all this discussion of power and throwing of facts and stats about hardware is becoming a bit tiresome again. One factor seems to be consistently overlooked, the fact that your chosen console/computer could be the most powerful behemoth of a games machine ever known to human kind, but it means precisely squat if there are no worthwhile games to play on it.

    This is arguably the most important factor in determining any machine's success, and for me, by far the most likely reason for me taking an interest in a console or ignoring it (which doesn't happen very much at all, I'm glad to say).

    It's looking good on the Nintendo front, seems to be picking up for my PS2, but not so good for the XBox. Only one game, Project Gotham, that really catches my eye. Perhaps Microsoft should think more about making the games appeal to consumers instead of trying to boast about processing power.

    After all, compare the XBox to the Gameboy Advance. Not much of a match up in power, but I know which one I'd rather have at this point.

    Feel much better now I've got that off my chest. Feel free to crucify me for it. ;)
     
  2. paiger

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    Quite agree, I downloaded a copy of Spectral Invaders on my PC the other day and played it hours. You can only spend so long looking at fancy graphics before you need some seriously good game play to back it up. I think that's why the PS1 was such a success.

    S
     
  3. Guest

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    I bought XBM (X Box Magazine) at the weekend....

    MS seems to be ensuring theres a quality game in every genre for the release date . I realise I'm reading a load of marketing hype but there at least 5 games that are coming out on the 14th of March (or very close) that appeal to me. I've got a memory like a sive but I can remember lusting after Halo, Crash, DOA3, Project Gotham, Unreal Campionship and a load of others. There are loads of PC games companies releasing quality games as well as the usual console software houses. So, apart from the software, the fact that you don't have to buy everything as an add-on I think the other thing that appeals is the DD5.1. I'm really keen to see this used in games as the sound is usually a let down, but hopefully this changes that.

    The three games for the game cube...Wave race, Luigi's mansion and monkey ball don't really appeal to me. I've never been a fan of cute graphics. People tell me loads of more mature games are going to be released. I'll wait and see.

    I was a big fan of the PSX1 and was really keen to love the PS2 like she was a real woman... But she is a woman needing a rich bloke to buy her presents all the time (30 quid for a memory card, can't have more than 2 players without a multi-tap, vibrating controller, modem etc ). And the worst point of all, no stunning games after a year. GT3 goesn't appeal to me, I played GT1 to death. I've had a go on my mates GT3 but it wasn't really any different for GT1 (except the smoother graphics). Maybe things will pick up but I doubt it.

    Have a read of the mag and see what you think. I'm sticking with my DC for now. It's cheap, the games are cheap and loads of them are of high quality.
     
  4. annefromuk

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    Power is what gets some developers interested though.

    Take Steven Spielberg for an example, he has seen the power of the Xbox and was so impressed that he is releasing his own games for the Xbox

    Also Peter Molyneaux's, Tim Schafer (creator of Grim Fandango), Larry Holland (Xwing-vs-Tie Fighter) and many more became involved with the Xbox due to its awesome power.

    BTW: Its the power of the Xbox what made Sony start considering bringing the release date forward for the PS3.

    Anne
    (likes the Xbox and is proud of it)
     
  5. pointon

    pointon
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    Er.... yeah? This isn't a good thing.

    This would be an extremely bad thing to happen to the industry. It would be the precedent that determines that it's acceptable for manufacturers to bring out their next machine as soon as possible simply to have the most powerful console on the market, before the last console has even had a chance to reach any of its potential. It would all be about the machine and never about the games. Everyone would lose. Gamers would lose out on games, manufacturers would lose customers because who can afford to buy a new £300 console every year?

    I look forward to seeing the PS3 in maybe six to ten years time. Right now, because I'm standing by my arguement above, I'd prefer to see better games released for the PS2 until then, and retire it, like the PS1, when its potential has been fulfilled.
     
  6. lechacal

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    Well that's just marvellous. You must mean must mean the other Steven Spielberg - the one with a great track record in developing novel game ideas, with engaging gameplay. No?

    Why on earth would anyone be interested in games because they have Steven Spielberg involvement?

    I hear that the PS3 is going to be so powerful that Martin Scorsese will be releasing games for it. Woo-hoo. Hmmm, I'll keep looking for games by games companies, I think.
     
  7. Guest

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    Pointon,

    That's Sonys fault mate. I think the PS2 is really a half generation box. Bit like the equilivent of the Sega Mega -CD. Maybe Sony should have called it PS1-DVD. Did the PS2 amaze you when you saw it ? Didn't do anything for me. All other machines have really impressed me e.g. Mega Drive/SNES, PS1/Saturn all seemed big leaps from the previous generations. The jump from PS1 - PS2 has been more of a pigeon step. Smoother graphics and that's it.

    The XBox looks like it's ganna amaze me. With the extra power games are going to be alot more realistic and that's what I'm after (I'm sure Game Cube fans wouldn't agree ;-) ) .

    e.g. Unreal Championship has got fog effect, nothing new there, but the fog gets distorted when a bullet is fired through it or you walk through it. The hard drive also opens up loads of possibilities. Like remembering the scorch marks you made last week when you blew up the enemies tank. All I believe making games more realistic.

    Buy the mag and read the facts (marketing hype).

    I really can't understand this amazing brand loyalty Sony have generated. What have they done for you ?

    £199 buys you a PS2.

    £299 will buy you a XBox.

    If you buy the PS2 you'll then need to buy...
    2 memory cards = 60 quid.
    2 Vibration packs = 40 quid (Guess).
    Multitap = 30 quid (another guess).

    The PS2 owner has now spent 30 quid more than the xbox owner, they have less memory for games saves and a lower spec machine (no DD5.1, Less polygons, no hard drive etc etc ). The advantage of having the PS2....you can play PS1 games. (Or PS2 games that were actaully written for the PS1 and then smartened up a little and badged as PS2 games).

    It'll all come down to games in the end. Lets just hope loads of people buy PS2's so my shares recover :D

    Jus.
     
  8. pointon

    pointon
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    If you'd read any of my other posts, you'd know I don't have any sort of loyalty to any brand. I normally always end up with each machine as soon as there are a number of brilliant games that I want to play.

    The PS2 is a very good console, as some recent releases have proved. Gran Turismo 3, Grand Theft Auto 3, Tony Hawks 3, Pro Evolution Soccer.... all great, if not exactly original games, enhanced by factors that would not have been possible on the PS1. Sony will only be at fault if they allow themselves into being unsettled into rushing the PS3 into release. The PS2 has a lot more to contribute to gaming history, perhaps as much as its predecessor.

    I'm sure the XBox will have its own contributions to make also, and the Gamecube most certainly will, but power is not the most important thing. Machines get ever more powerful as time and technology moves on, but creating gameplay never becomes any easier.
     
  9. Matt

    Matt
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    Are there any PC games that do this as i belive PCs have had hard drives for a number of years.
    The hard drives will allow bloated code to be installed off the CD rather than opimising it.
     
  10. alanrob

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    Oh! Here we go again!!! Another my console's better than yours debate. Can't we get passed this.

    Okay, the X-Box has power, the GC has quailty game play and the PS2 has a number of great titles (even though there not original).

    Can't we all just agree on one thing?
    That it doesn't matter what the console can do, it's the games that count.
     
  11. pointon

    pointon
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    I think that is the point I have been making...
     
  12. museumsteve

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    it looks like this topic will stay around forever and a day..
    I have all the machines (as I own an import shop)..so I promote them all..and regardless of somes views I don;t have a bias towards any of them..
    So let's take a look at the main Xbox, GC and PS2 games that are out presently..

    obviously these are US games

    PS2

    Max Payne - done on the PC (never played it but apparently rather good)..slows down, lacks textures and the stages were made smaller to allow loading requirement form PS2..

    SSX Tricky - more of the same (which is fine) but slows down on very first run..but does have a lush DTS soundtrack..

    NFL Madden 2002 - more of the same

    Metal Gear Solid 2 - awesome (played it and finished it without wanting to go near another game) - my game of the year.and I never played the first one..

    James Bond Agent under Fire - nice..for about an hour..very dodgy control method but reat for Bond fans..

    Dave Mirra 2 - nice (if you like that sort of thing)..

    Time Crisis 2 - awesome (if you like light-guns)..


    GameCube

    Luigi Mansion - a nice game..certainly not a Nintendo masterpiece..

    Pikmin - definately a Nintendo masterpiece (Miyamoto rules)

    Wave Race - yawn..more of the same and water effects that are very over-rated (IMO)..but perfect for the pad..

    Rogue Leader - an update to Rogue Squadron..looks nice but anyone that says it doesn't suffer from frame drop..well enough said about that..

    SSX Tricky - was supposed to improve over the PS2 version..but suffers from the same frame drop issues..quicker loading though..

    NFL Madden 2002 - more of the same..quicker laoding than PS2..

    Tony Hawks 2 - nice game..same as PS2 but suffers from frame drop more than PS2..and lacks the sharpness..

    Dave Mirra 2 - again nice of you like this sort of thing..same as PS2

    Smash Bros - never been a fan..but have played it and it is fun..Nintendo fans will love it and it looks lovely..

    Xbox

    Halo - a masterpiece (IMO)..wasn't overly impressed when I played the first stage, but by the time I finished the game I was awestricken..The multi-player is great fun..co-op mode suffers from frame drop but is hilarious..Online (LAN) play rivals the best FPS out there and adds lots of new features (including vehicles)

    Amped - should really have 1080's crown as the ultimate snowboarder..looks stunning..no draw-in (ever), a soundtrack containing 150 tunes and the option to use your own soundtrack..

    Project Gotham - better than MSR (which I hated)..looks nice (but not stuning) but handles like a dream with the pad..and again the option to use your own soundtrack..

    NFL Madden 2002 - best version out there..quicker loading and crisper visuals..especially field/grass..

    Dave Mirra 2 - same as others but quicker loading and better depth in all visual departments..for example look at the grass..there are blades of grass all around instead of one flat texture/picture on both GC and PS2..

    Max Payne - due in this week (but according to the reviews online) looks better than PS2 and doesn't have loading problems at all..



    that's obviously not a definitive list..but all the above games came out or were out at about the same time so it's a fair comparison..
    Pikmin is the most original game out of the lot..but that aside Nintendo are struggling big-time..
    PS2 is churning out the sort of stuff we've come to expect..which is fine..
    Xbox is beating Sony and Nintendo at their own game..as games that are out on all machines are better on Xbox..and that's only down to the power of the machine..The developers are generally the same so there's no other reason why Xbox would load a game quicker or not suffer from frame drop other than the way the console is capable of handling the code..
    I can't argue about the tecchie side..but I play these games day in and day out and as a retailer I know what we're selling and why..
    Xbox has done what the other guys have done..so how Microsoft (who aren't the ones making the actual games - with the odd exception) can be doing things wrong is beyond me..

    I believe the latest official figures show Xbox shifting 935,000 units since launch, with GC under 700,000 and PS2 streets ahead with 1,400,000 (obviously a large number due to MGS2)..

    Anyway..not after an argument..I just think it's time we gave Xbox a chance..that's all..
    people keep saying it's about the games..and they're right, it is and with the current crop of games out since 15th November Xbox has the lion's share of the good ones..IMO..

    forgot to add...all Xbox games run in Dolby Digital..infact everygame I;ve played so far (which is probably most of them) default my Denon to 5.1...surely this is another browny point for the machine..
     
  13. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Well some of you know I've been looking on to this gaming lark... The last point about DD surround is interesting as folk had told me that PS2 had games in DD and DTS.

    Well, yesterday I was reading a tech article about games consoles and surround sound. It seems that although PS2 suppports these digital surround formats you only get this quality of sound at end of stage video's or out of game scenes. During actual interactive game play the sound defaults to sterwo with prolgoc endoding. This is because the time taken to encode on the fly to DD is too great for the "power of the playstation". IE If you do something on screen which illicts a response of a voice etc then it can't be encoded fast enough on to the DD soundtrack in 5.1

    Now, Dolby have invented a faster algorithm and encoder for this purpose and are licencing it to card manufacturers.....Oh and the XBOX already has it as standard......

    I don't care whose is best incidentally but I'd like comments on above. Games are the most important thing though. I rememebr sitting playing sapce invaders on an Atari for hrs...then Jet Pac Willy, Chucky Egg....Metal Gear Solid....

    Gordon
     
  14. museumsteve

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    Hi Gordon..

    All the Xbox games I have played on my system at home (Denon AVCA1SE) have defaulted the amp to 5.1..

    EA have started to code some of their Playstation 2 games with DTS Active..it seems to be real-time decoded (from what I can hear) but is limited to a certain style of game where the sound wouldn;t be too difficult to code (IMO)

    Rogue Leader on GameCube is coded specifically for ProLogic II but I don't have DPLII so I really haven;t heard it..
     
  15. pizzed-monkey

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    .....this whole sound thing is something I wanted to bring up as I was looking to upgrade some of my AV system.

    I have just got my gamecube but would I be right in thinking it will only support prologic II?

    If it does this means I will have to change the reciever I was planning to get cos it only supports 5.1 and DTS!:(



    pizzed-monkey
     
  16. pointon

    pointon
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    And anyone who has played NHL 2002, would have clear, outstanding proof that this is not so.

    If my PS2 was sending at most a stereo signal for Pro Logic, I don't think it would be clever enough to fool my amp into staying in its automatic DTS setting.
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    You are quite right. From this I would deduce that it's a DolyDigital issue and that as someone has mentioned the capability is there with DTS...

    Gordon
     
  18. pointon

    pointon
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    True... I don't actually know of any PS2 game encoded with DD5.1, just DTS (although I prefer DTS over DD5.1 anyway).

    Anyone know any different?
     
  19. museumsteve

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    yes mate..I believe so..
    but from what I've heard (from those that have it) Rogue Leader does sound awesome..
    I'm gonna have to wait until Denon do the upgrade for my amp..gutted..
     
  20. Guest

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    musemsteve,

    Where is your shop ?

    I was trying to wait for the XBox to hit the streets here but I think you've convinced me to get one now.

    How much are you selling the Xbox and games for ?

    Just out of interest. How many Xboxes have you sold ?

    Jus.
     
  21. museumsteve

    museumsteve
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    I've sent you an email JUS as I don't really wanna advertise on here..(might get in trouble..hehe)..
     
  22. plasma2k

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    museumsteve

    hi there, im also interested in your shop could you also give me an email if you get a chance!

    cheers
    plasma
     
  23. Guest

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    MuseumSteve,

    Thanks very much. I'll expect a discount as I'm a close friend :D

    The company I work for has just tightened up their security so I can't access my e-mails. I can still visit here though, so it's not all doom and gloom.

    My wife is currently upgrading the home PC and internet line (from ISDN to ADSL). so that's out of commission too.

    Maybe I'll pop into one of those internet cafes over xmas.

    Jus.
     
  24. dAvE6

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    Well SSX tricky has DTS. Great huh? No. I was excited about this, but then noticed on the amp that it was only DTS 4.0. Very dissapointing. No centre or subwoofer channel.

    Is 5.1 DTS even possible?!
     

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