Question Power cuts and projectors

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by DevlinDarkside, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. DevlinDarkside

    DevlinDarkside
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    We have a few power cuts in my area when bad weather comes along. The power cuts are are only for a few seconds at a time and sometimes they can happen in quick succession. On occasion it will go off for 10 minutes or more.

    How will this affect a projector that is at normal operating temperature? Will not having the cool down cause any damage?

    The unit is plugged into a surge protector along with all my other expensive equipment.

    Devlin
     
  2. unreel

    unreel
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    It may reduce bulb life, if its an LCD projector then the panels / polarizing filters may get affected by the additional heat from the lack of cooling.

    How much is a new bulb for your projector ?. I'd be wary of using it during storms especially if you regularly get power cuts. Maybe a UPS is worth considering to protect it if power cuts are a regular occurrence.
     
  3. steveo7653

    steveo7653
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    Hi, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I had read so many horror stories on various forums about interrupted power supplies and bulbs not cooling down properly that I was considering investing in a UPS that would allow you to power off the unit in case of power failure. Glad I held onto my money. I would agree with the previous post about not using it during a storm etc but I have had several sudden interruptions while watching movies and am still on the same bulb @approx 4000 hours. My epson runs its fan for about three seconds after a normal power off in eco mode.
     
  4. DevlinDarkside

    DevlinDarkside
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    Mine is a BenQ W2000 DLP and the fan runs for about 30 seconds or more (not timed it) after power off even in smarteco mode.

    So that is slightly worrying hence my post :(

    Thanks for the replies :)
     
  5. linnasak

    linnasak
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    Beware UPS they can kill the power supplies on their own!

    I live in area with frequent outages, half doz events per year due to high winds. I went for remote power switches, so the default is off after a power cut. Then I can turn back on when stable. Feels a bit like Jurassic park when rebooting them all, but the bit that makes me cringe is the repeating on / offs which I think strain the kit.

    Kevin
     
  6. RobinDB

    RobinDB
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    You you tell me more on this please.

    I have used a UPS to protect my projector for some time but worried it might now be a mistake.
    thanks
     
  7. linnasak

    linnasak
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    Ups advice as not suitable was from MERIDIAN AUDIO.

    Kevin
     
  8. RobinDB

    RobinDB
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    have you a link on this ?
     
  9. Anthonyplace

    Anthonyplace
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    I got a 1500 va Ups years ago it’s on to its third set of batteries I have had four different projectors Mitsubishi, Benq, optoma, and now Jvc. And I still have three of them all working and on originals lamps. My first projector was a Davis Cinema One used without UPS two lamps exploded in that at the time they were £500 each so I got the UPS we live out in the sticks one year we had 23 power cuts
     
  10. noiseboy72

    noiseboy72
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    UPS for backing up PCs may not be suitable for AV equipment with linear power supplies, as the modified sine wave output can cause buzzing and a slightly different output voltage from the transformer. They are fine for projectors, as they have a switched mode power supply.

    Most modern projectors are fine for the occasional hard power off. The issue was always hotspots on the lamps, but modern projector design minimises the potential for damage. If the fan runs for less than 30 seconds on cool down, I really wouldn't worry. I used to use projectors which needed 2-3 minutes to power down, but they were 10 000 lumens, with multiple lamps and plenty of glass optics that held the heat.
     
  11. linnasak

    linnasak
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    Here’s the email from tech support

    Thank you for getting in touch with Meridian.


    Our DSP speakers especially are actually designed to be plugged directly into the wall mains socket and never via any kind of mains conditioner/UPS.


    This is because if a speaker goes into a serious fault condition, it will draw a lot more current and in-turn, blow the mains input fuse (as intended to protect the rest of the electronics). If any kind of device/conditioner is in-line, the concern is that it may not supply the required level of current and therefore not blow the mains fuse which could, in extreme instances cause catastrophic damage to the speaker.


    So in short, we would always suggest avoiding these types of devices where possible.

    Now this killed the idea for me but then there was issues with type of power supplies and imperfect sine waves etc.

    Can’t find the specific link on these issues but do remember quotes on burning out power supplies over few months.

    Also I noticed my new Sony projector pulls a lot of current on switch on as it tripped the distribution box when connected temporarily to lighting circuit. The ups manual I have for the one that powers my BT ROUTER specifically stated not to use high power demanding kit. So again worth contacting the ups supplier that ok for kit being driven.

    So in short I suppose it depends on the type of protection in place on your projector and the quality / size of UPS. Perhaps worth doing what I did and contacting tech support and getting their advice. For me I was trying to protect £15k of kit so wanted definitive answer.

    Kevin
     
  12. Anthonyplace

    Anthonyplace
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    The UPS only protects the projector it’s not necessary for anything else
     
  13. linnasak

    linnasak
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  14. noiseboy72

    noiseboy72
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    That email from Meridian positively worries me!! To suggest that the mains fuse in the plug is there to protect the device is totally incorrect. The fuse is there to protect the mains cable, with internal fuses to protect the equipment itself. On no account should the fuse in the mains lead be relied upon to protect the equipment. Also bear in mind that a 13A fuse would take more than 10 minutes @ 20A to blow. This is more than enough time to destroy most electronics, transformers and cabling!

    Although it is true that a UPS may not provide the same level of current that the mains supply will, in a fault condition, it will trip out more quickly than any mains fuse will. It's pure bunkum to suggest that a UPS will reduce the speaker protection.

    It is however true that only a true sine UPS should be used for audio equipment. This prevents heating in the transformer, buzzing and incorrect voltage levels.
     
  15. linnasak

    linnasak
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    Meridian power leads have 5A fuses. Anyway if you had their kit would you go against their advice?

    I think the point they make is in fault state they are consciously pulling high current to blow fuse and end power.

    Whether this is common protection method or not I don’t know, but I think it is worth getting projector manufacturer advice pre putting UPS in line. No downside !

    Kevin
     
  16. noiseboy72

    noiseboy72
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    I would entirely agree that talking to a manufacturer before using a different method of powering makes total sense, but in Meridien's case their reply is I hope, incorrect. You should never rely on the mains lead fuse as the primary method of protecting a piece of equipment. What would happen if the incorrect fuse was fitted? Would all the protection disappear?

    Bootstrap protection throws a dead short across the power supply lines if they exceed a preset voltage. This sort of protection however, should be linked to correct value fuses in the lines, so that they blow before damage is done. I used to design this into some equipment we made for the Home Office, as the electronics was both very sensitive and expensive and replacing the regulators in the supply lines was a lot cheaper than repairing the damage that anything over 17V would do. It's possible that they use a similar system to protect their speakers.
     
  17. John7

    John7
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    But they were referring to DSP SPEAKERS - not a projector!
     
  18. RobinDB

    RobinDB
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    yes, I have a 1000va UPS my projector is 400w max
     
  19. linnasak

    linnasak
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    Just tried to check if ups is mentioned in my Sony manual. States connect to wall power socket. Silent on ups or not.

    But worryingly in t&c of warranty has these exclusions

    Exclusions
    The following are excluded from warranty:

    • Damage caused by:
    1. Acts of God or any reason beyond Sony’s reasonable control
    2. Misuse, including (but not limited to) failure to use the equipment for its normal purpose in accordance with Sony’s instructions on its proper use and maintenance
    3. Improper operation or maintenance of the equipment
    4. Connection to improper power supply
    5. Attempted repair by anyone other than a properly Sony authorised service agent
    6. Use of the equipment in conjunction with third party accessories, products or ancillary peripheral equipment
    • Equipment where the manufacturer’s serial number has been altered, deleted, removed, or made illegible
    • Equipment which has been adjusted or adapted without Sony’s prior written consent, including (but not limited to): upgrading the equipment beyond specifications or features described in the instruction manual, or modifications to the equipment to conform it to national or local technical or safety standards in countries other than those for which the equipment was specifically designed and manufactured
    • Consumable parts
    • Normal wear and tear of parts, as defined by Sony for example in service manuals, unless there is evidence of a manufacturing defect
    • Damage or loss to any software programs, data, or removable storage media Costs associated with de-installation, re-installation or integration into a system
    • Any additional exclusions which may apply to specific products or product types the details of which is published on the Sony website
    So if you had issue, they could throw 4 at you.

    Hence suggest check on basis plan to use ups.

    Kevin
     
  20. RobinDB

    RobinDB
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    I expect the likes of APC would dispute that.

    Improper power supply i would take to be 230v instead of 110v etc
     
  21. linnasak

    linnasak
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    Will contact Sony for clarity on interpretation and their opinion on protecting. Discussion at least got me round to registering!

    Kevin
     
  22. RobinDB

    RobinDB
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    What is the Sony kit and how much power does it take ?
     
  23. linnasak

    linnasak
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    Sony vw760
    Power requirements
    AC 100 V to 240 V, 4.3 A to 1.8 A, 50/60 Hz

    I think it pulls the 4.3A on start up perhaps to initialise the laser.

    Kevin
     
  24. RobinDB

    RobinDB
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    I would have thought 4.3 amps at 100v
    And
    1.8a at 240v

    That’s 430 Watts
     
  25. noiseboy72

    noiseboy72
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    I'm not sure with a laser projector I would be worried about hard switch offs. They are nowhere near as sensitive to overheating as discharge lamps. It's up to you, but I wouldn't be too worried about a UPS with that projector.
     
  26. RobinDB

    RobinDB
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    Valid point though I guess on how hot everything is internally and how much heat is coming out the vent. If fan stopped it might rocket.
     
  27. linnasak

    linnasak
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    I think you are looking at balance of risk. Impact of perhaps 247 imperfect sine etc vs impact of power cut when bulb active. Perhaps compromise is use ups when active but turn off power from ups when not.

    Best solution probably is get ok from manufacturer of projector no issue and use overspeced ups in terms of quality of power output and its owner capabilities.

    This link explains the differences in ups types quite well
    Uninterruptible Power Supply. Power Inspired Ltd.


    Kevin
     
  28. RobinDB

    RobinDB
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    In essenense that is what I do.

    I have a pro-grade 1000va UPS. (an APC smart UPS)
    Off that I run all my home network, router, phones, media boxes 24-7.

    My projector I only plug in when i use it.
     
  29. linnasak

    linnasak
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    See response from Sony prime support:

    Hello Kevin

    A UPS won't affect the warranty. The only issue is with the cooling. As you know the projector must not have the power interrupted during the cooling down phase or the lamp -life may be reduced.


    Kind regards

    Ben

    So good news, I think if you want to use ups, although I would still go for a good pure sine wave one, as you want to still be using when warranty expires.

    Kevin
     
  30. RobinDB

    RobinDB
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    all cool then.
     

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