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power Amp! Av AMp! or Steroe AMp!

Discussion in 'AV Pre-Amp/Processors & Power Amps' started by thedude, Dec 16, 2004.

  1. thedude

    thedude
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    Hey guys and girls hope you are all hi diddleho, its about the time of year when all us enthusiasts start looking at our equipment and think what can i get to make that little bit of a difference and how much do i want to go and spend to get it.
    Ive just upgraded my fonts to Aelites and i have to say tonally i prefer them to the monitor audio gold ref 20s from my demo experience.
    But now im seeking what we would call perfection. I want that little bit better reproduction. So im looking to upgrade an amp or two.
    I have a budget which is always a shame cus we'd all like to go and blow it on the tip top best, but oh well money does permit.
    At the moment i have A yamaha ax 620 which is coming out of the preouts into my rotal ra01, although this has done me now for nearlly two years i feel that maybe i want something better. Ive being doing my research and i really listen to musicv more than films although i love my films but i want the best from my AELITES. So i was thinking of replacing my Rotel RA01 and going for a quad 909 power amp. What do you think?
    Im assuming that swapping the Integrated amp with the power amp shud be straight forward as its already preamped from the yamaha 5.1 amp.
    YOur opinions and advice would be great, and if anyone knows where i can get the power amp from cheap that would help too.
    Thanks
    Neil
     
  2. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    IMO you would be better off getting a better integrated amp rather than a power amp. The preamp section of an AV receiver is going to be poor in comparison to even a moderate integrated. I was a while back running a Denon 3802 and very unimpressed with the music side so added an Arcam 8r integrated and a 8p power amp to bi-amp my B&W 603 speakers. This just totally turned my system on its head with the music side being excellent to me. The advantage of the Arcam integrated is that it has a 'processor mode' that bypasses the preamp section when being fed by the AV receiver so you only have a single volume control to worry about. I also much prefer the sound of the Arcam amps to the Rotel, but that is just personal choice.
    I'm not sure if you can bi-amp your speakers but if you can then this would also be a very worthwhile upgrade.

    Hope this helps,
    Mark.
     
  3. wookie

    wookie
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    The DSP-AX620 has a pretty good pre amp for £400 av amp.
    I personaly added a NAD C370 to my old 620 and used it as a power amp with the direct inputs and also as an integrated amp.


    When using the NAD's own pre amp, there was a BIG improvement over the 620.
    I also used the same cd player connected to the 620's L&R ext input sockets for comparison.


    The integrated won every time.
    Bass was fuller and more solid and the noisefloor (although already pretty low from the Yams pre amp), was not even audible with the Integrated HI-Fi amp.



    You may be better off investing in a Pre amp for music, rather than using youre 620.

    Rotel amps are robust, high current designs.
    Keep your existing amp and feed it a better signal and feed the pre amp with the best source you can afford would be my 2pence worth.
     
  4. thedude

    thedude
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    ok so a preamp?? geeze im left on my head anyone got any prices websites ideas? baring in mind that i have to use the 620 as some kind of output tho as its all in the same room and i dont have enough money to afford two sets of fronts one for music and one for 5.1
    let me know
     
  5. Knightshade

    Knightshade
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    What's your total budget?
     
  6. booktrunk

    booktrunk
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    Small but good enhancement is the Rotel 1062 integrated.

    If you are going larger then things like the Arcam A90 / FMJ A32 are both nice. A nice feature is they also have a processor input so no having to match the level etc.. as long as you have the correct input for the amp selected you will get the right level for movies.

    There are all sorts of integrated amps that you could go for. Just go into a couple of hi-fi shops and see what they have:)

    How about where you got your speakers from do they have any suggestions as to what might sound good as the amp for them?
     
  7. thedude

    thedude
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    ideally id like to spend a maximum of £1000 but id like to go under if possible. So i could just go for a good integrated amp? that would be better than going for a power amp.
     
  8. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    What source are you using for music? You may get better results buying a decent cd player over an amp imo especially if your using a dvd player for music. An improvement will be had from better amplification but if the source isn't too good then you could be wasting both the amp and speakers with a weaker component.

    just my 2p:D
     
  9. RASH PATEL

    RASH PATEL
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    Hi,

    You may consider buying Rotel RMB 1075 power amp, under a grand,and Big bang
    for your Bucks!!! superb Amp, I personally think,
    Best of luck,
    Rash
     
  10. thedude

    thedude
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    Hey i got an Arcam CD 62T for the CD player which seems to be a good value as far as i can see. Rotel power amp hey? Sounds interesting!
     
  11. thedude

    thedude
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    i was really looking for something a little more hifi based tho
     
  12. Knightshade

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    New I'd go for the Exposure 3010 power amp. Make a good match for Arcam and very Hi Fi based. Second hand for a thousand you may get into the realms of Bryston or possibly Linn. Trouble is then your weak point will be the pre and the CDP. Which ever section you throw the money at it will be held back by the other weaker links.
    I think i'd be inclined to upgrade the av amp and then add a power amp later.
    Adding a DAC to the CDP would be a sound investment but again would be held back by the pre and power stages.
    No easy answer i'm afraid.....
     
  13. thedude

    thedude
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    ok then so you reckon if i upgrade my AV AMP, it will then give me some cause for some better musical tonage? all of these decisions, and why does everyone have different opnions, surely we shuould all think the same lmfhao
    Ok so if i upgraded my 5.1 to a yamah rxv1400 that would add a better balance?
     
  14. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    The reason everyone has differing opinions is the fact that all components in the audio chain affect the overall performance of the sound produced by any set up. The trick is balancing the three major areas (source,amplification and speakers) for the relative budget you have.
    If your happy with the ax620's movie performance (which is very good for the money- I had one a few moons ago and was a 5* winner iirc) and wish to improve the musical side of things you need to look to those areas you feel your current system is lacking. If you can give us an idea of what you wish to improve or describe what you feel is limited currently we may be able to nail the root cause and point you in the direction of an appropriate solution.
    If you have recently upgrade your speakers and your happy with their performance and character of sound they deliver then that only leaves the amplification and source to look at. An integrated amp will almost always beat an av receiver hands down on musical performance for a lot less money.
    The CD62 is a very good player again for the money but can be improved upon but unfortunately isn't upgradable like the cd72 iirc (I replaced my cd72t with the Naim last year after auditioning the usual suspects). You could look to upgrading that to a mid or higher level player or suitable dac (which I know very little about tbh) depending on how you wish to split the money you have available. I'd recomend you go have a listen to some players at the next price point to see what improvements are to be had for the extra outlay and whether you feel the money is well spent.
    The rotel again is a good budget integrated and could be improved by the addition of an extra power amp or replaced entirely with a better more powerful integrated. The addition of a power amp would allow you to bi-amp your speaker (if they have this functionality) which can offer great improvements to sound produced. Again the only way to find the right combination is to go have a listen to a short list of products your interested in.
    It seems your at a cross roads and have been biten by the av bug like most of us in these forums. The road to audio nirvana is enjoyable but can be a costly one ( the classifieds section can help though:)).

    enjoy your journey :smashin:
     
  15. thedude

    thedude
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    Some very good points there, to be honest i feel its lacking something i dont know what maybe just a kick up the arse, its good i liked it for a ling time but as i say everything just gets old and grey afta a while and i want change.

    By coming out of any AV amp by the preouts into an integrated is going to be ok but if i come out of a better amp and then into my integrated amp will that preform better?
    Or shud i upgrade and get the rxv1400 and then improve my intergrated stereo amp for something which is a little better? is there a good amp for £600? thats integrated? i dont know all these choices, im so confused :suicide:
     
  16. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    thedude i am confused you are using a rotel RA01 (integrated stereo amp) as a power amp? or as stereo pre/power and adding front preouts of yamaha for AV FL + FR amplification?
    IE does CDP coonect to Yamaha or rotel?
    It should go direct to Rotel
    http://www.avforums.com/frame.html?http://www.avforums.com/forums/index.php could be funky upgrade 2 x mono digital power amps........
     
  17. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    I gather your using the pre-outs from the ax620 to the rotel for movie purposes only. Whilst listening to music via the cd62 that should be connected directly to the integrated amp and NOT through the av amp. You should be able to listen to music through the rotel and cdp without the ax620 being switched on.
    If your happy with movie performance then I'd keep the ax620 and concentrate on replacing your cdp and integrated amp for better music performance. If you like the Arcam sound they have some excellent products within your budget which will allow an av in functionality. This mean during movies the Arcam will allow the ax620 to control the gain and you'll no longer have to fiddle with two volume controls:)
    Generally hifi components are very well looked after so are in as new condition if you were to go second hand. This will make your budget go a lot further and you should be able to take quite a few steps up the hifi ladder.
    If your looking for improvement in movies and possibly move over to a 7.1 system then look to replacing the ax620. The weakest link imo was the stereo performance which led me to replace mine with the denon I currently own. This was a marked improvement for movies and music but I still wasn't happy with the stereo side of things so continued to upgrade that side.

    If I were you I'd go down your local dealer and listen to several systems at varying price ranges to get a feel for what budget you require to get the level of performance and functionality you require.
     
  18. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    There seems to be a lot of people trying to help you get an upgrade that will be exactly what you are after. Now the problem with all this advise is that nobody, including yourself, really knows what you want from the upgrade.
    So basically I think you need to take a step back and really think about a few things ie What are you unhappy with - Music, AV or both? Then what are you willing to spend to get the performance you require? Finding these answers is not really going to be that easy for you, but it really is down to you to find them. If you have a couple of AV/HiFi shops that do demos then get along and try a few systems with both music and DVDs. Then try and get some home demos.
    Once you have done the above you will have a far better idea (hopefully) of what you are after. Let us know what you have found and we will do our best to advise you where to go from there.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a pop at you as I have been in this situation in the past as I'm sure have loads of other people.

    Good luck,
    Mark.
     
  19. thedude

    thedude
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    Hey guys want to thankl you all the for the advise as confusing as it is sometimes, you know you think you know something and then bang your right back to square one knowing less than when you started off.
    Im thinking im going to upgrade my 5.1 amp to the rxv1400 at £400 i cant go wrong i feel . It sounded good in demos so thats a start.
    Also i want one last little bit of advise i love music music music did i say music??? well anyways as i said i come out of the 5.1 via the pres and into the integrated amp everything is connected to me 5.1 amp, shud i connect my cd player straight to my integrated amp? will it improve the permformance as i am thinking no as its gotta come outta the integrated anyway?!!!
    Thanks
     
  20. MarkE19

    MarkE19
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    CD and all music sources should be connected to only the integrated amp. This will give an improvement with music. The AV amp can be left switched off when playing a CD etc and only used for DVD replay.

    Mark.
     
  21. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    ^
     
  22. thedude

    thedude
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    yeah i saw the quote and that will get alot better quality will it? didnt really notice the difference
     

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