Possible Hidden Gem Cables?

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by SNOUTTERS, Jul 13, 2015.

  1. SNOUTTERS

    SNOUTTERS
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    I was recently browsing on "The Bay" for some interconnect RCA cables, I was looking for some used Missing-Link cables when I found 2 interesting vendors/manufacturers of cable, one UK based and one US based. For ease of reading my comments will be in red, everything is what the vendors claimed on their listing/ products

    The UK based company didn't seem to have a website.
    The Westbury Audio Cable claims the following and seems to be made by a enthusiast for enthusiasts of high end sound cables. This looks to be marketed to go against the like of Missing-Links Cryo Reference cables which are several times the price of the Westbury.

    The Westbury is priced at £47.99 for 0.5M and comes with a 7 day refund if not happy.



    ******************************************************************************
    Solid Silver cryo phono interconnects 0.5m 99.99% pure

    I have been trying to come up with the ultimate solution for Phono connections on my Hi-Fi and i think i have done it. SOLID PURE SILVER WIRE AND TEFLON/AIR INSULATION. These have now been further improved with Cryo treatment.



    You can spend thousands on a Hi-Fi set up, spending hours in expensive shops trying CD players, Amps and Turntables, and then most people hook their equipment up with either cheap connections, over priced copper core connectors or spend hundreds on high end connectors. Well those times are gone for good!!

    I set out to produce a top quality cable that doesnt cost the earth, and i have created just such a cable. I have trialled the cable on my (now vintage) Rotel pre and power amps with a Marantz CD67KI CD player and a Linn turntable. The difference that these cables made was huge. I replaced my QED QUNEX 3 phono leads (I know, i should have been ashamed of myself but when i was buying them they were over £100 a set and the best in my price range) and all detail has been increased without making the system sound sharp. Bass is lovely and deep, and the detailing on instruments and voice is simply superb. I then gave a set to a friend of mine who is seriously into his Hi-Fi, and he trialled it on his Meridian CD player matched to KRELL integrated amp. I dont know what cables he was running, however he has refused to give the ones i lent him back!!!

    I have used only the finest materials available, sourcing 99.99% pure silver wire, Slightly oversize PTFE (teflon) tubing (allowing an air dialectric), High quality gold plated NEUTRIK RCA plugs. The covering is heatshrink to tidy the whole cable up. I also used lead free 4% silver solder to make the connections.

    I constructed the cabe as follows. 0.5mm pure silver wire for the signal wire (+ve), 0.5mm pure silver wire for the return wire (-ve) and 99.99 ofc wire for the screening. The silver wire was first cleaned with silver cleaner to remove any oxides which may have formed. +ve and -ve were threaded into PTFE tube to eliminate any interference, however the screening wire just has standard shrinkwrap (you dont want this in PTFE as it will not then perform its function which is to drain out RFI (radio frequency interference). The 3 wires were then braided together in a LITZ (litzendraht) pattern by hand. Litz wire is made by crossing the outside left wire over the centre wire to, in turn become the centre wire. The right hand wire is the crossed over the new centre wire to, in its turn become the centre wire, ensuring that all wires are equally distibuted along the length of the cable. Although time consuming, the benefits far outweigh the time spent and braiding by hand ensures that the braid is not too tight and also allowing the cable to remain flexible. The whole aim of this method is to construct a cable which repels RF INTERFERENCE. This interference caused the signal to degrade and as such the listeneing experience suffers.

    Once braided, a heatshrink section was then shrunk over the whole bundle to tidy it up. One end of the cable then had the -ve and the screening cable soldered to the -ve (earth) part of the plug and the +ve to the centre pin. This is the SOURCE end. A sleeve is added to the wire to indicate the signal direction. The other end was the same except that the screen wire was cut short so that it did not connect at this end. This end is the DESTINATION end. You always want RFI going back to the source (ususally a CD Player) nor the destination (Amp) so it does not colour the signals in the amp.

    Finally, the cable clamp that comes with the teminations is clipped over and the whole end is screwed into place.

    Each Pair have been electrically tested to ensure that they are of the high quality that you would expect, however when you connect them to your system, the cables will continue to improve for up to 100 hours.

    The pairs are then sent to a top quality cryo treatment company. I wont pretend to know how it works but it does. Basically, cryogenic freezing aligns all the metal molecules in the silver, terminations and solder, further increasing the ease of flow of the signal (in laymens terms). It makes this already high end cable sound even better than it already was. The pair will come with a certificate showing that they have been treated.

    Longer lengths can be supplied if required and different terminations (ie different rcas or xlr etc) can be used. Please e-mail me and i will put you required length on EBAY for a buy it now price or contact me with your specifications.

    I can make as many of these as you require. If the quantity on ebay is insufficient, let me know. I usually overlap my listings by a couple of hours.

    Upgrades to existing customers can be carried our retrospectively and can be listed as a buy it now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Contact me for details

    If you are not entirely satisfied, please return within 7 days of reciept for a FULL REFUND of the purchase price. I cant say fairer than that, this is a no risk offer!

    **********************************************************************

    Next up is Aural Harmony, US made Priced at £102.52 for 1.0M. Again no real website.
    This brand has huge claims as to who's using their cables (see below), they even have a Facebook page with more famous people using cables made by them.

    Here's what they claim:


    about our wire

    We are one of only a handful of audio companies who manufacture their own raw wire. From the selection of precious metal casting shot, to drawing of the wire, to polishing and gold plating all fabrication stays in our family’s hands. Because of this we keep the cost of manufacturing down and can experiment with new wire styles without the huge cost of large minimum orders. If you find a need for a special wire gauge we do not offer feel free to call for a quote, you may be pleasantly surprised at the price.
    about this design
    You are bidding on 1 meter pairs of our 99.990+% (4n+) Pure Silver Sonnet II interconnects. Available as RCA or XLR, your choice, same price. Some features worth noting:


    1) The use of Cardas SRCA connectors for the RCA ends or Neutrik XX Gold pin series for the XLR's


    2) A mechanical braiding machine which makes production more efficient and produces a very even repeatable braid.


    3) A carbon impregnated outer jacket which not only looks great but protects the braid from possible mechanical damage.


    Each pair is constructed using 21 feet of our 24ga. 99.990+% (4N +) Pure Silver wire in Teflon tubing which is braided into a 3 wire configuration ( 1 for +, 2 for -) termination is achieved via the very nice Cardas SRCA male connectors or Neutrik XLR connectors. All of this is soldered up with our 4% High-purity silver solder. The sonic signature of this interconnect is very much a “front row center” experience. Every minute detail is revealed from your music source. The first thing you hear is definition, but without harshness or etching, everything is “now” and “real“. Depending on how the music was recorded you will hear things you have not heard from your recordings before, such as finger sounds on strings and valve tapping on horn instruments. The next thing you realize is ambience, again, depending on the recording you will hear air around instruments and voices that add a three dimensional sense of space you may have not heard before. This is a trait of high purity silver and a low capacitance cable design. There are other cables on the market that offer this but not in this price range. All of the music you love is conveyed with a tight bottom end, smooth mids and an extended open top end. Realism is the key word here. With this interconnect you get that pure and beautiful transparency , liquid midrange and a soundstage that rivals ANYTHING on the retail market selling for at least 3 times as much, these will take you to a level you never thought possible in a product of this price. Simple, pure, and just plain great I think you'll really love these!

    about me...

    Just a few words about me, my products and you. Ebay and online sales have been incredible...meeting you all via email and phone has been a great experience. Through the “online community “ I’ve supplied my products for personal and professional use to Grammy and Music Award winners, Recording studios, Broadcasting companies, Government agencies and Audio equipment manufacturing companies:


    musicians and recording studios
    It’s humbling to know audiophiles are hearing Aural Harmony products from the musicians instrument and voice thru the whole recording process into their home system.


    Grammy award winning group The Goo Goo Dolls ( Custom 1/4” Pure Silver plugs for acoustic guitar for their latest album to be released Feb. 2009)


    Jazz great Ron Carter ( 99.999% Pure Silver wire and custom 1/4” Pure Copper plugs)


    Grammy and CMA award winner Alan Jackson ( 99.999% Pure Silver wire for rewiring of his vintage Fender amp )


    Grammy award winner female vocalist P!nk ( High-Purity Silver solder and Cryo Gold Alloy Sonnet II used in studio for her album “ I’m Not Dead”)


    Singer/songwriter Lisa Loeb. ( Custom 1/4” Pure Silver plugs for her guitar )


    Guitarist extraordinaire Charlie Hitchcock ( 99.999% Pure Silver wire and Cryo Gold Alloy wire for home and professional use.)


    Classical and Jazz Double Bassist Tony Falanga ( 99.999% Pure Silver Speaker Jumpers, Cryo Gold Alloy custom interconnects for his personal Vandersteen 5’s and Audio Research electronics.)


    QDivision Studios. Recorders for artists James Taylor, Aimee Mann and many, MANY more. ( Custom microphone cable)


    Brooklyn Recording. Recorders for artists Nora Jones, Jimmy Vaughn and more. Andrew Taub, recording engineer. ( 99.999% Pure Silver Speaker Jumpers for studio and home use)




    broadcasting companies, audio manufacturers and others


    Arizona State University School of Music( 99.999% Pure Silver Tonearm wire, 99.999% Pure Silver Sonnet II Interconnects) state funded shootout for comparison of analog VS digital music reproduction.


    ABC News ( 99.999% Pure Silver Digital cable for Video and Audio feed)


    The BBC London “ BBC Music Magazine” ( Gold Alloy Tonearm wire set and 99.999% Pure Silver Sonnet II interconnect for reviewer use)


    Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories ( 99.999% Pure Silver wire)


    Audio Research ( Custom 99.999% Pure Silver interconnect)


    VAC Valve Amplification Company ( Custom 99.999% Pure Silver interconnect)


    Atma-Sphere ( Custom 99.999% Pure Silver interconnect)


    Spotheim-SpJ, The Finest Quality Turntables in the world. ( Spotheim SpJ - The Finest Quality Turntables in the World ) ( Cryo Gold Alloy wire, 24ga. and Rectangular Solid Core)


    K&K Audio/Lundahl Transformers ( Cryo Gold Alloy wire)


    Here are a few opinions from some respected names you may have heard of...I thought you might be interested in reading their views:
    From Kevin Hayes (Owner, Designer) VAC Valve Amplification Company:" Our deepest appreciation for the extended loan of your 99.999% Pure Silver interconnect. " " I can say they are among the better cables we have used with our equipment. They present an impression of good image size and weight, with a natural sense of body. I can honestly say that I'll miss having them around...Once again our thanks"
    From Judy Spotheim (Owner, Designer) Spotheim-SpJ, The Finest Quality Turntables in the world. ( Spotheim SpJ - The Finest Quality Turntables in the World )
    Hello Don, By now the SpJ Passive preamplifier (Control centre with the three inputs and the two outputs that utilize the DACT attenuator and the Elma gold selector) is matured. The wire ( Cryo Gold Alloy ) is great ! I enjoy the sound. Its GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD… … !!! and in combination with my ALBA turntable and the LYLA arm, things really are amazing (Stage presence, tonality, etc…) Best Regards, Judy
    From Peter Keil:“Received the two new sets of Cryo Gold Alloy Sonnet II interconnects yesterday. They are beautifully made and a credit to your workmanship. I fitted them last night and listened again to my favourite music. Even without burning in, an improvement was immediately evident. Acoustic solo guitar highs have now a “shimmering” quality, each singer in unaccompanied choral work is distinctly resolved, solo piano has that wonderful “bite” of the real instrument, and all traces of listener fatigue over hours of listening, have gone. The quality of reproduction, now even more revealing, is so good that there is no sense of “ too loud”. Cranking up the volume now means more amplitude but no attendant distortion/noise/pain. I feel that my system is working near its optimum and I’m very pleased & satisfied. I have had the opportunity to try very very expensive interconnects before I tried yours. I always knew my system could do better, but not at any price. Your interconnects are as good, if not better, than some of the biggest names in cable. For my money, they’re an absolute bargain. I look forward to many more hours of listening pleasure.”We are a quiet motion in this great thing called music, trying to bring the best to you in the simplest and most cost effective way as possible. No, you won’t find fancy packaging ( except for our vacuum sealed bags for raw wire) or polished wooden boxes. Usually we just ship with a paper wrapping and place it in a box or USPS envelope. However if you would like a special cover on our cables please let us know and we will be happy to accommodate you.


    **********************************************************************

    My question is do we have possible hidden gems here, I'm sure no ones heard of Chord, Missing-Link or Nordost at one point. Has any one tried any of the 2 cables mentioned and your thoughts please and constructive criticisms if any. No flaming please as we've all seen enough of those comments on forums. Cheers.
     
  2. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    Silver has a very high conductivity, about 5% or 6% better than Copper. However, what is the resistance of a typical run of Copper? Not much I assure you. Further Cables of this nature are feeding high impedance load, a few may be 600 ohms, but that would be rare, most will be in the range of 10k ohms to 47k ohms. Relative to that input impedance on most amps, how much signal could be lost inside the cable itself?

    Further, how does wire in any sense alter the signal, which would account for it improving or degrading the signal passing through it?

    The other factors are Inductance (coil-like) and Capacitance. The art of audio wire making is quite old, and I think they may have it figured out by now.

    I can't say with signal wires, but I calculated the impedance of various diverse wires at a variety of lengths to find out at what frequency Inductance and Capacitance came into play. They don't. The resulting frequency numbers are in the 100's of thousands of Hertz and in the millions of Hertz, with the exception of wire in the range of 50 feet or more. Capacitance never matters, but the Inductive load can have some effect at high frequency with very long lengths of wire.

    Speaker Cable Debate in Perspective - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

    You didn't provide links, so we can't actually see the cable, so it is hard to make a judgement on the build quality. But in general, exotic cable provide their best benefit to the ego and little more.

    I'm not against buying nice, meaning above average in cost, cables and wire, but a person does have to exhibit some restraint.

    In my opinion, how much you can spend is related to the value of your system. Few need to spend more than about 5% of their system cost on all cables. Though you are certainly free to spend more or less.

    Perhaps from a turntable cartridge, where the lead are exceptionally thin, and the output is extremely low (MM=5mv, MC=0.5mv), Silver wire might be worth considering. But again, the typical input impedance of a amp's PHONO input is about 47k ohms. Minute amounts of resistance in the cable relative to that are insignificant.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2015
  3. sjackson

    sjackson
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    As a non-believer in expensive cables anyway, I find it hard to digest that the first cable linked to on eBay is banging on about cyro treated silver cable but then using a £2 (or less) gold plated (copper I hope at least) RCA plug. They are nice plugs I'll give him that as I have a few here but I just solder them to WF100, 1mm solid copper core satellite cable.

    I presume this is the second product mentioned:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-990-4n-P...651?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20fee1be4b

    I'm thinking I should get into this business. Couple of RCA plugs, a few metres of WF100 (might have some in the shed) and some nice gold plastic braiding off eBay and I'll be minted...
     
  4. hifix

    hifix
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  5. sjackson

    sjackson
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    I'm more impressed that the cables are "one-way"......
     
  6. hifix

    hifix
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    One-way only? :)
     
  7. BlueWizard

    BlueWizard
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    One-Way only, that's got to be hell for Alternating Current.

    Though I suspect the implication is that the cables are directional. That is, they work better in one direction than the other.

    Probably has to do with forcing Clockwise spinning atoms to spin Anti-Clockwise.

    Whether these cables are justified, in my opinion, depends on the cost of the rest of the system. Pointless to put a single £50 pair on a £500 system.

    I'm just not sure how either of those cable are better than these -

    https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/4127/fisual-rio-custom-made-stereo-phono-rca-cable/

    And if you are going to drop money on RCA cable, is it better to have them professionally made, or made by some kid in his bedroom?

    https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/2881/fisual-havana-custom-made-stereo-phono-rca-cable/

    https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk...-audio-40-custom-made-stereo-phono-rca-cable/

    https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/2881/fisual-havana-custom-made-stereo-phono-rca-cable/

    https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk...e-audio-1-custom-made-stereo-phono-rca-cable/

    https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk...havana-xl-custom-made-stereo-phono-rca-cable/

    https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/6733/audioquest-evergreen-stereo-phono-rca-cable-1m/

    https://www.audiovisualonline.co.uk/product/6565/qed-performance-graphite-audio-phono-rca-cable-1m/

    If you are handy at soldering, you can make you own cables -

    http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/van-damme...udio-interconnect-2-x-25mm-black-priced-n04ju

    RCA Connectors -

    https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/p...d=0CI0CEPMCMABqFQoTCMjt0bTw28YCFcgrHgodHJ0HAA

    https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/p...d=0CKECEPMCMAJqFQoTCMjt0bTw28YCFcgrHgodHJ0HAA

    https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/p...d=0CNwCEPMCMApqFQoTCMjt0bTw28YCFcgrHgodHJ0HAA

    http://eu.banggood.com/Wholesale-Wa...ronic-hu-ukw&gclid=CLTbrsHw28YCFQqQaQodL-MB-Q

    https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/p...d=0CIQDEPMCMA9qFQoTCMjt0bTw28YCFcgrHgodHJ0HAA

    https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/p...d=0CJ0DEPMCMBJqFQoTCMjt0bTw28YCFcgrHgodHJ0HAA

    Further, though many doubt it, some say that Silver cables can sound Bright. That may or may not be a good thing depending on your other equipment.

    Steve/bluewizard
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2015

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