Question Possible amp upgrade: speaker matching

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by jdp1962, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    My current line up is

    Marantz PM6006 amp
    Marantz CD6004 CD player
    Marantz NA8005 network player
    Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 speakers on Atacama stands.

    I've been contemplating upgrading the amp to a PM7005 or PM 8005, but have just found an opportunity to buy a secondhand PM KI Pearl Lite. My concern is whether that's overkill for the Wharfedales.

    Any thoughts anyone on the likelihood that I'll need to upgrade the speakers to get an audible benefit from the KI Pearl Lite?
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  2. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,619
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +8,427
    Within reason I don't think there is overkill as long as your are satisfied with the sound produced and a good amp will undergo further speaker upgrades if you so wish. The better the amp the better, arguably, the sound should be from any speaker.

    I do think that getting a Marantz PM8005, there are a few new units still available, or indeed the Pearl will show up the negative aspects of the Wharfedales and may lead you to wanting far better speakers and to that end you should be looking at standmounts costing around the £1000 mark. You will always have that nagging doubt in your mind and the dreaded upgradiatus will rear it's head. You have been warned.:)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  3. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    Thanks @gibbsy . In a sense, that's my dilemma. I've had the Diamonds a while, and I do really like them; not just the sound but also (and I know this shouldn't be a consideration but it is) their appearance. It would be quite a wrench to have to part with them.
     
  4. dannnielll

    dannnielll
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,236
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    ireland
    Ratings:
    +937
    If the speakers are the limitation, when how would you know?... There is no way other than replacing them with others and hoping there is a difference. . Once your amplifier is good enough, making it better(whatever that means) has no effect.
    Ask yourself .. do I have enough power or room volume? Would more power matter?
    Do the speakers go down low enough in frequency to satisfy my craving for bass.?
    Does the sound at treble sound convincing?
    If your Diamonds answer positive to these questions you do not " have " to change them.
    Any change in amplifer deserves to be accompanied by a change in amplifer specs. .and cost price and "musically" are not specs.
     
  5. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,619
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +8,427
    I can appreciate that, I love the way my KEF R Serie look. Just as my KEFs have their limit then so the Wharfedales and knowing some of the amps that you have mentioned they will certainly outperform the Wharfedales but yet again the 8005 certainly will give your speakers a boost. At 86 dB sensitivity they are not the easiest to drive but at 6 ohm the 8005 will be close to pushing out 100 watts into them.

    Pushing them too high will show their limits. This is where build quality and components used as well as design come to the fore and this can be found roughly in the cabinet size and weight of each speaker. They weight 6.5kg whereas some of the better quality standmounts with roughly the same cabinet size can weight twice as much and would therefore take more volume through them and remain stable.

    If you have the chance to get any of those amps at a good price then that's a plus and I would be very tempted to do so as it will improve listening, but to a level that will not be as high as a pairing with better speakers also.
     
  6. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    The KI Pearl Lite is £449. It's tempting.
     
  7. dollag

    dollag
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,030
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +847
    That is a great price and a great amplifier.

    imo you have nothing to lose and something to gain. as @gibbsy said you will hit a wall and odds are the amplifier upgrade will push the diamonds to their limits but that is not a bad thing. You'll just likely get to know their limitations, and if you decide to upgrade your speakers in the future, you'll have an existing amplifier to power them
     
  8. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    I hesitated, and now it's sold. :(
     
  9. dollag

    dollag
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,030
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +847
    That's a shame. wouldn't worry too much. something will pop up if you feel the need to upgrade. I didn't think it would hang around at that price
     
  10. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    @dollag, how right you were.

    I've just secured a PM KI Pearl Lite on eBay for £375, including delivery. It should all being well arrive on Tuesday; reports to follow. :)
     
  11. dollag

    dollag
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2015
    Messages:
    2,030
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Location:
    Kent
    Ratings:
    +847
    oh wow, a blessing in disguise. please let us know how you get on :smashin:
     
  12. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    Yup, will do. Pretty excited; looking forward to Tuesday. :)
     
  13. hali

    hali
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2007
    Messages:
    18
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Westcliff-on-sea, ESSEX
    Ratings:
    +3
    Congratulations. Better start saving up for better speakers to match that cracking amp ;-)

    With that said I still have pair of Wharefdale Diamond 8.3 in a holiday home and they are fantastic.
     
  14. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,619
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +8,427
    Oh I can feel a serious bout of upgradiatus coming on.:thumbsup:
     
  15. Khazul

    Khazul
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,864
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +676
    TBH having lived with an over-kill amp (SQ wise) relative to my speakers for a while now, I've come to the conclusion that if your speaker are OK, then its actually a good thing and in some ways better than the other way around.
     
  16. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    I won't rush into more upgrades; I want to get used to the KI first.
     
  17. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    8B1FA55E-D9A3-45D1-8D46-2A42A5D8C746.jpeg So the PM KI Pearl Lite has arrived, and is already settling in nicely. So far, I’ve run my personal favourite audition album through it (the Beatles’ Abbey Road) and then settled into an afternoon with Planet Rock.

    Initial impressions very favourable.
     
  18. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,619
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +8,427
    What are your units in the photo top to bottom? I'm being nosey.:hiya:
     
  19. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    Not nosey at all; from the top down, they are:

    Marantz UD7007 blu-ray player;
    The newly installed PM KI Pearl Lite;
    Grado RS2e headphones;
    Sky box;
    Marantz CD6004 CD player;*
    Marantz NA8005 network player.

    The Sky box and UD7007 feed a 50-inch Panasonic on the wall behind the rack, out of shot. I don't have home cinema, I'm happy to listen to films in stereo.

    *You know I said yesterday I wouldn't be upgrading anything else for a while? Well thing is, today, I found an SA8005 for sale at 2ndhandhifi. And........it's not for sale any more. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  20. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,619
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +8,427
    This upgradiatus is a dreadful disease, no doubt the excellent SA8005 will bring some relief......for a while.:thumbsup:
     
  21. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    I had a stroke of luck on timing. The Pearl Lite had been shipped guaranteed for delivery before 1pm today, but actually arrived this morning just after 9am. By 10am, it was in place with Abbey Road playing, whilst the outgoing PM6006 was boxed up and put up for sale on eBay. Now I admit I was a little generous with the buy-it-now option (£175? you decide), but someone snapped it up within minutes and paid immediately. It was at the courier drop-off point by 11am.

    So the amp swap out has happened completely undetected by SWMBO, who works Tuesday and Thursdays, getting home about 2.30pm. Guess what? The SA8005 is scheduled for delivery Thursday, before 1pm. ;)
     
  22. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,619
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +8,427
    That's an awful thing to do. Lucky though! As far as my wife is concerned I've never paid more than £20 for SACDs discs. I wish.:(
     
  23. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    Maybe, maybe not.
    Maybe, maybe not. I think of it as how if no one hears a tree falling a forest, it didn't happen. :)
     
  24. Ugg10

    Ugg10
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,312
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +1,652
    I just get a sever dose of eye rolling and a "whatever makes you happy, dear" when I suggest that I have found a bargain on ebay/gumtree/facebook etc. however, I may have to start to "let other enjoy my treasures" as I am now up to two full systems.
     
  25. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,619
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +8,427
    I still don't know whether or not to get a headphone amp. The headphone stage on the SA8005 is very good but lacks somewhat in outright power. I've been looking at a Lehmann Linear which will have to be connected to the Rega at £750, the other alternative being a Simaudio Moon 230 DAC and headphone amp for a whopping £1500.

    Then I sit down and think do I really need an amp. The next thought is can I sneak this under the radar. I tried that with the Oppo headphones and my mate called in and his opening words were where are those £1000 headphones. The fact that I spent under £1000, well by a pound, cut no ice. Women, just don't understand upgradiatus unless it's on a clothes hanger.:)
     
  26. Wall Of Sound

    Wall Of Sound
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2016
    Messages:
    195
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    46
    Location:
    England
    Ratings:
    +112
    Ah yes, making sure purchases are within the respectable price bracket via little white lies so that we won't get that disapproval look, we all know about that one :D
     
  27. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    I'm "lucky" that Mrs Jdp is rather fond of high quality jewellery. It works out rather expensive, but it's still leverage.
     
  28. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    And presumably he was brutally and sadistically killed to death afterwards?
     
  29. jdp1962

    jdp1962
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2007
    Messages:
    409
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Ratings:
    +24
    So now that I have an SACD player, I am browsing Amazon to see what’s available on SACD in the rock genre. Plenty of interesting albums to consider but boy are they expensive!
     
  30. gibbsy

    gibbsy
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    14,619
    Products Owned:
    3
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Cwm Cynon, De Cymru
    Ratings:
    +8,427
    You can pick a few for around £12 including titles by Art Garfunkel and Dire Straits. I've just got a used mint copy of Dark Side of the Moon for £32 and will be playing it tonight on headphones. Most I've paid is £44 for a new copy of the Beach Boys Holland and last week I picked up a brand new copy of Jeff Wayne's World of the Worlds for £18, which was £4 cheaper than the original CD I bought in the early 1990s, the price sticker still being on it!

    Every SACD I've bought so far have been a good improvement on the original CD, I'm definitely hearing more detail from the originals even when playing them on the Marantz and consider my purchases so far as being worth the money. As you rightly say some of the titles are very expensive and I scour the net for mint or near mint used copies from dealers that have good reliability ratings.

    So far I've picked up 12 titles:
    War of the Worlds
    Dark Side of the Moon
    Pet Sounds,
    Beach Boys
    Holland, Beach Boys
    Dad Loves His Work, James Taylor
    Tapestry, Carole King
    Music, Carole King
    Muswell Hillbillies, The Kinks
    Angel Claire, Art Garfunkel
    The Best of Bob Dylan
    Anticipation,
    Carly Simon
    No Secrets, Carly Simon

    The bailiffs are at the door.o_O
     

Share This Page

Loading...