Popping bass sounds!?

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by gordiegords, Feb 2, 2009.

  1. gordiegords

    gordiegords
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    Heuy folks, i have a yamaha av363 amp and i have just received a pair of whaferdale 9.1 front speakers which i'm happy with, i mainly use the amp for i pod, pc, and x box 360 use, i like a lot of bass, i only have a small room so thats why i got the smaller speakers, i notice that when i set the bass to +2 on the amp it is fine but when i set it +4 the and turn the amp up the bass frequencies make a popping sound on the speakers! any ideas why this is? the bookshelve speakers i have sit on a set of chest of drawers rather than on a set of stands.

    any suggestions please advise :lease:

    Gordie
     
  2. stug45

    stug45
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    check connections aren't loose. check the woofer isn't hitting anything (there might be a cable at the rear to connect it touching). if possible check them individually. one might be doing it. if its both and there's definitely no mechanical reasons causing it try it with other speakers. if there is no fix there might be a fault with the woofer.
     
  3. bohane

    bohane
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    is it when you turn up the volume quite quickly?

    andy
     
  4. Stoatman

    Stoatman
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    SOunds like you are over driving the speakers and the drivers dont like it at all. I wouldn't turn that switch to +4 thats for sure, perhaps an additional sub is in order.
     
  5. gordiegords

    gordiegords
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    Hmmm, i'll try turning it up slowly when i get home, I cant see how i'm overdiving the speakers, it isn't that lioud when they start to pop, maybe i should turn down the source i.e pc or i pod? the connections are fine at the back, i have connected them as i would connect any speakers, i havent connected them using bi-wiring connections so the bridge is still connected to the speakers, i thought it may have something to do with the crossover settings?

    G
     
  6. stug45

    stug45
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    ive set mine to +10 at mid high volume just to see and had no problems.

    have you got a sub? mine hasnt been delivered yet but with bi-amping or normal ive had no problems so far.

    it could be the connection inside the speaker. if its possible to carefully remove the woofer and check that leads arent knocking on the cone when its doing its work. more volume/bass the speaker has to move more to compensate. there might be enough for it to touch. if it was me, i'd check just to make sure.

    is the sound coming from both?
     
  7. gordiegords

    gordiegords
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    i can tcheck just now cause i'm at work, i will have alook when i get home, i've a funny feeling it is only coming from one of the speakers though.

    G
     
  8. bohane

    bohane
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    i personaly think your speakers are fine and it may be your amp thats the problem, i had the sony str-dg820 and had the same problem with my neo 3 floorstanders. whun the bass was anything above +2 i would get the popping noise when i turned up the volume quite quickly, if i did it slowly then the problem would go away. this is how i deceided it was the amp and not the speakers. also my amp was messing about with hdmi dropping etc so i sent it back and went for the 2400es and now no matter what the bass settings i get no problems in the slightest.

    i dont think it was the amps wattage that was the issue as the 2400 is 10w per ch less than the dg820, but more of how it hanldes the bass and power etc.

    this may of course not be the same for you but it was certainly the case for me ;)

    andy
     
  9. bohane

    bohane
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    what receiver/amp are you using?

    andy
     
  10. stug45

    stug45
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    onkyo 576. using hdmi input from freeview box, used ps3 hdmi input, also have my pc on it a lot with coax input. I've also used aux inputs on from with ipod. had no problems with the speakers.

    the speakers are rated at 100w rms. the amp has 130w rms. there's no way I'm using the full 130w. I also have them bi amped (individual amplification from av amp to the tweeter and woofer)

    it could be the amp. but checking for mechanical noise is easier than trying to identify what's happening inside digital amplifiers
     
  11. Matyam

    Matyam
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    What material are you playing when it pops as ican do the same if i increase bass on my old nad amp at high levels.Are your speakers set to small or large because if set to large your speakers will not be able to take the low frequencies as i have found to my cost on some soundtracks.
     
  12. stug45

    stug45
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    without any sub connected on mine its automatically set to large and im getting the full range of sound.
     
  13. bohane

    bohane
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    thats why i asked if it happened when turning up the volume quickly, if you set the bass to +4 and then turn up the volume very slowly to the same level that you heard the 'popping' before and the noise is gone you will know it is not the speakers. i think (just a guess) that when you increase the volume rapidly then you are putting to much strain on the receiver and that is what is causing the bass distortion/popping. as i said, i had the same problem and now its gone (along with the amp that was causing it) and i wouldnt advise removing the woofer from a brand new speaker incase you damage it, or leave visual marks that you have 'opened it up' therefore voiding any waranty you may have on the speakers. granted there are probably no seals inside, but if the bolts holding the woofer in are scratched then you may not get a refund as they will say ut was you that damaged them by opening them up ;)

    andy
     
  14. stug45

    stug45
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    good point. i'd definitely speak to the dealer you got it off.

    i would think that a digital receiver has some sort of circuitry to fix any issues that could happen with turning volume up quickly

    just played with the dial on mine and it wont let me turn it really fast. in turning it fast i hear no difference. also when i turn 1/2 way fast the volume only goes up a small amount. when turned 1/2way it goes further (30-40 vs 30-45).
     
  15. gordiegords

    gordiegords
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    I'll try turning up slowly when i get in, also i will try the same song but from different sources, i have an i pod connected, also a pc and also an x box 360 which i can play the m media from my pc through, i havent had any problem with bass for soundtracks or in games.:rolleyes:
     
  16. bohane

    bohane
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    another test would be to get them up to the volume that the problem was happening at and then turning up the bass, if the problem is still there then i would definately take the speakers back for a replacement/refund.

    as a side note, i only got the problem while listening to music aswell and the scource or connection type made no difference in the slightest.

    andy
     
  17. gordiegords

    gordiegords
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    ok i have made some adjustments, i did not realise that the speaker settings on the amp were set to front>large and that the woofer was set to sub>front, therefor i take it the small speakers were not to keen on all that bass, i have changed the front speakers to front>small and changed the sub to sub>both, i cant send all the sub frequencies to small fron for some reason.


    What do you guys think? i really cranked it earlier but i had to stop as i could feel the air from about 2 feet away:confused:

    Gordie
     
  18. bohane

    bohane
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    if your speakers are set on small then you will need to adjust the crossover frequency if you can, try it at 20hz above your speakers quoted rating, which for your speakers is 50hz to 24khz so 70hz should be a good starting point.

    and did you try the volume/bass tests that i sugested earlier?

    andy
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2009
  19. ChrisAV

    ChrisAV
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    If I understood your original post you just have a pair of 9.1 front speakers, in which case you setting were correct (front speakers must be set to large if you don't have a sub). I think you have now told you amp that you have a sub so effectively you've lost all bass below the crossover (probably 80Hz).

    Chris
     
  20. gordiegords

    gordiegords
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    Ok i'm not quite confused, i thought i had to set them to small speakers because they are small bookshelf speakers? Right now the crossover is set to 120Hz, i can reduce the crossover to as much as 40Hz, i will try the tests tommorow andy as its not to late to try. so should i adjust the crossover and also put my front speakers back to larger?

    G
     
  21. ChrisAV

    ChrisAV
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    Ok, lets take a step back...

    - large/small determines whether or not a speaker is affected by the crossover you set on the amp. There are some exceptions, but generally in a surround setup with a sub they should all be set to small (even if the speaker is physically large)

    - the crossover determines which part of the frequency range goes to the main speakers (fronts, centre, rear) and which go to the sub. Those below the crossover go to the sub (which should have its own crossover set to either max or off), those frequencies above go to the main speakers

    - the crossover on the amp is usually set at 80Hz, unless you have very small speakers which don't reach that low in which case it would be set higher to avoid a gap in the frequency range (e.g. if you speakers only went down to 100Hz and you set the crossover at 80Hz, frequencies between 80-100 would be lost)

    - regardless of whether you have 2, 3, 4, or 5 (or more) main speakers, if you do not have a sub then the fronts must be set to large. This is because they are needed to play the full range (or as much as possible, 9.1s for example go down to 50Hz so any signal below that point is lost)

    - when you set your fronts to large, the crossover level has no affect on them, only speakers set to small are affected.

    So, if you don't have a sub, in speaker set up the 'LFE/Bass Out' should be set to 'Front', and you should only be able to set the front speaker size to large.

    Hopefully this is a little clearer, though doen't really help with your original problem.

    Chris

    the small print: frquencies above/below those specified as the operating range are not completely lost, they decay in volume, reducing the further they fall outside the range, so for example the 9.1's are rated down to 50Hz, but will play probanly play 45Hz but not as loud as the 50Hz frequencies etc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
  22. bohane

    bohane
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    if i was you i would select the 2 ch mode on your amp and not worry about the sub at all f(if you have one) or the moment and try and get to the bottom of where the popping noise is comming from, and the best way i can think of is by doing the tests i suggested with the amp set to 2ch stereo mode, as this should mean that the sub settings and crossovers should not even be active. try the simple tests mentioned earlier and see what results you come up with. if there is no change then i would find another amp (either a friends or one in the store you got the speakers from) and see if the popping is still there. and ths should tell you what the problem is, the last ting you want to do is go through the whole process of getting refunds and buying differnt speakers and then the problem is still there as it was your amp all along.

    andy
     
  23. ChrisAV

    ChrisAV
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    I think on the OP's amp this is referred to as 'Staight' mode, not to be confused with '2Ch Stereo'.

    'Straight' mode will, as you suggest, bypass all AV settings (speaker size, crossover etc).

    Chris
     
  24. bohane

    bohane
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    hi chris, the direct/straight modes would output what the player is sending to the receiver, be that 5.1 2.1 or 7.1 or 2.0. but 2 ch stereo would give you just that, the front 2 speakers. thats the way it has worked on every amp i have used in the past. the straight/direct modes would only output 2ch if the source meterial or the player was outputting 2ch stereo. the version of direct on wy sony 2400es is called 'a.f.d auto' and if i select this and set my blu-ray player to 'bit-stream' it will play the lpcm track on blu-rays with all speakers active.

    but im no expert and am probably wrong :rotfl:

    andy
     
  25. ChrisAV

    ChrisAV
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    OK, I see where you are coming from.

    Straight - (from manual) "multi channel sources are decoded direct to into the appropriate channels without out any additional effects processing. 2 channel stereo sources are only output from front left and right'. I assumed (perhaps mistakeningly) we were dealing with stereo inputs, in which case straight would have been appropriate as in rules out any other settings/processing etc impacting the sound.

    2 ch stereo (from manual) "down mixes multi channel sources to 2 channel or plays 2 channel as they are"

    So, yes I agree 2 ch stereo will effectively make sub/crossover inactive and should be used if the source is multi-channel, but 'straight' would work equally well (possibly better :D) for stereo inputs.

    Chris
     
  26. bohane

    bohane
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    lol agreed mate ;)

    andy
     
  27. gordiegords

    gordiegords
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    ok guys, i think i have made some progress, i was just about to do your tests andy but i got caught up in reading the manual for the 9.1's, when reading the manual i notice it has a section on popping sounds and advises me to turn down the lfe settings on the amp, i did so and although it did not make much difference i did notice that most of the popping was coming from the left speaker, i then went into manaul setup on the amp and looked through my speakers level settings and notice that the left speaker was set to +4 and the right one +2, i did an automatic setup when i first got the amp so i guess that is what it set my speakers up as, i have turned both them down to +1 and this does allow me to turn up louder although if i go really loud and turn the bass up then i still get popping, maybe that is normal when i have the amp up to -2 and the bass level at +4, do you guys think i should adjust the front speakers to 0 for the left and right and then adjust the rears to -2 and so forth, then all i would have to do is turn up the amp to sompensate, does this sound right to you guys? was i overdriving the speaker by having it at +4?

    Thanks guys

    Gordie
     
  28. bohane

    bohane
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    not sure really as i believe another member with the same speakers posted stating he turned the bass up to +10 and had no poping at all, so i still think its your amps handling of the bass frequencies at higher volumes that is causing the popping. do you have a friend nearby with a different amp/receiver you could try your speakers with? this seems to be the only sure fire way that you will find out who the culprit is.

    regarding speaker levels, i currently have my fronts to '0' my center to +1 and rears to +4 and this is fine for my set up, and nothing like what the levels the 'auto-cal' system on my sony gave me, which are different everytime i run it lol i use it mainly for distances and thats it, as it sets all m speakers to large and my sub to +10 and im sat right next to it!

    and if you set it to 2 ch stereo the lfe shouldnt come into it as the sub will be inactive.

    i hope you get to the bottom of it, but i am still convinced the amplification is the problem.

    andy
     
  29. ChrisAV

    ChrisAV
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    Hi Gordie

    I think the reference in trouble shouting refers to very low bass (the LFE or 0.1 track on DVD). The problem below (Excessive or distorted bass at high level) I think is the issues you have, for which the causes are excessive level, excessive bass or speakers to0 close to corners.

    How long have you been running the speakers, I think you said they were new. They should really be run in for 50hrs, this allows the bass units to loosen up (which will increase the bass anyway), and their initial tightness may acount for the popping.

    As for levels, I'd try and keep everything centered around zero, so if one speaker needs to be +4 relative to another, I'd set them at -2 and +2.

    Speaking from experience, my 9.1's have a lot more bass now than when I first hooked them up.

    Chris
     
  30. gordiegords

    gordiegords
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    i would say i have probably ran the speakers for about 10 hours, i have only had them for a week and a half, i will see if they settle a bit and if not i will try them on another amp, the thought of having to send them back fills me with dread:confused:
     

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