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poor hi fi replay,could this all be down to room my kit is in ?

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by mick23, Aug 17, 2002.

  1. mick23

    mick23
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    dealer came round ,checked my 3802 out re settings,connections,everything ok, still rather poor 2 chan sterio replay at home compared to demo,(3802 &speakers bought from differant dealers) auditioned arcam av200,nad370,arcama85 in dealers, (same speakers ,cd player,interconnects,) pink floyd through a85 sounded magic, this was no fancy demo speakers 8ft apart ,play cd etc (sound in shop i was !00% happy) got a85 home linked up cd,md,cassette, speakers expecting some descent sterio, result copared to shop (25%) tried with cheap spkr cable, then (qed silver/a) dearer biwire cable, bog standered phono or descent interconnect, an old pair of speakers, newish cdm1nts, 600s3 etc, sterio still still poor more like asda £120 mini/system, so i suppose its down to poor room accoustics, room is 4.5*3.5 meters is there anything else that could be wrong, advise please p.s sterio is poor wheather its cd md or cassette
     
  2. buns

    buns
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    I dont suppose the dem room happened to be a little small yet has stuff lying all over it??

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  3. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Mick, can you give more details. What kit you are using, music you are playing and in which format. Where are your speakers positioned etc. How is your room furnished. Then maybe we can take a stab at the problem.
     
  4. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Mick,
    just a few standard faults that you should check first.

    1. Are your speakers wired in phase...not just the cabling, as it is not unknown for the internal wiring of the speakers to be incorrect.

    2. Are your speakers ok. No, sticking coils, burnt out tweeters or deteriorated suspension foam.
     
  5. mick23

    mick23
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    had 2 demos recently ,one with 3802+cdm1nts in largish listening room, 2 channel direct mode only,with cdplayer , no sub etc just 3802+f/l/r/speakers (-10 to15db) which was not overloud,
    2nd demo different dealer , just used a85+cdmints+nad 540i cd,same interconnects, plonked speakers about 8ft apart and played cd, there is hifi stacked on racks, both behind and in front of speakers but it sounded good with a pink-floyd cd.
    my room is 4.5*3.5mtr tv in corner ,2 armchairs,sofa does not matter where i put speakers to listen, if i place them say 10ft apart ,away from athe back wall , rearrange furniture, stand back as far as i can and listen ,it still sounds poor, regardless what i rearrange in room, but -22db on 3802 or -25db to 30db on a85 is rather loud in my room, but cd/cass/or m/d all sound lackluster in 2 channel sterio, so ive heard 3802+a85+cdm1nts+nad540, all sounded good elseware, but not in my room, thank you all, ps speakers wired up ok,tried 3 pairs of speakers anyway, music tastes (dire straights,eagles) all of which are generally good recordings
     
  6. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Right, I had a similar problem in my room, it sounds like a combination of bright sounding system and room acoustics.

    My room is about 4m square, high ceilings, wooden floor, carpets and plenty of soft furnishings.

    The Arcam 85 should be fine, I use Naims which are not known for a sparkling top end and a pair of Neat Critique speakers. Soft dome tweeters.

    I have the speakes either side of the bay window, but I have placed my hi fi rack to the immediate right of the right speaker about 6 inches away. This breaks up the sound and stops it bouncing around. So that the speakers do not have an equidistant soundstage which creates bouncing and echo.

    Plenty of soft furnishings and a fitted carpet help.

    Also, is your floor wooden or concrete as this makes a significant difference.
     
  7. buns

    buns
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    Have you done your best to ensure that power and signal cables do not run parallel? What other household equipment might be plugged into the ring which your av gear is plugged?

    karkus might have some better ideas.

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  8. mick23

    mick23
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    thanks karcus,floor concrete, carpet covered, all cables are a bit of a jumble might have a look at that,
     
  9. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Concrete floors tend to reduce the bass further, your also using silver cables ? not sure of the construction but copper speaker cables are less revealing and tend to give a less airy sound so would probably be better. The old chord flatline is a good compromise.

    What about stands, same thing again, the more solid and weighty the construction the better the bass weight, sit the speakers on blue tak.

    All these things help, but you may find you need to change the speakers, look for something that is more musical than open or revealing. Look for doped cones, not kevlar/carbon or paper construction with a fabric dome tweeter.

    Originally I was using an arcam A60 with MS Pageant 2s and the first Arcam CD player which sounded great for the time.

    When we moved I upgraded :rolleyes: to a Top of the range Yamaha HC amp. Result awfull lifeless bright sound.

    Off to the dealer ...What you need is a new amp..the speakers are fine...returned with a Naim Nait less lifeless but still awfull :confused:

    In desperation get dealer to bring round all the latest 5 star awarded speakers Mission 753, 500 et al, guess what no bl**dy better.

    Another dealer lent me the small book case Critiques, no big reviews, looked like they would be no better than the Pageants as they were smaller. Result, fantastic, just what the doctor ordered. This does not mean these would work for you, but its more about how components interact together and in the enviroment.

    Try and get a home demo for anything you buy, dealer demos only give you a comparison in the shop setting.

    As to cabling, I have a right rats nest, this includes component video leads, none of these seem to have a detrimental effect.

    I use a dedicated ring main for the supply through switched fuse outlets. Interference caused by Hairdryers and fridges is common but I dont think this is what you are describing.
     
  10. mick23

    mick23
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    i was using mono wired s/ann cable now using dnm reson 2 biwired, this is ribbon cable/copper core, what another dealer recomended to tame treble, speakers are on bw stands, ive had speakers since late may, but never given them a really good (belting at higher volume) due to good neibours with young children, they might just need breaking in a bit more, will have to see thanks
     
  11. buns

    buns
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    Karkus is right. It is the interaction of equipment in its native environment, so home demos are the best and 5 star reviewed products are not always.

    The mains is, i agree, unlikely the problem you describe, it is a totally different one which I happen to suffer! As are the cables, it depends on your equipment really and its setting, mine is sensitive to the cabling in a big way, many set ups are not.

    Fiddle is your most logical and fun solution, change things about and give it a good kicking, you'll get there eventualy!

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  12. karkus30

    karkus30
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    I know bi-wired seems to be recommended but its not always best, let your ears be your guide on this.

    If you want to run your speakers in, just stick some cushions up against them and put your cd player on repeat, it is not necessary to use high volumes, its more a length of time thing.

    Also some speakers take time to warm up even when run in. Amps and cd players usually need to be left powered up although I think Arcam no longer need this.

    My Naim amp is not ready to play for at least 8 hours due to the caps used in the power supply.

    Let me know how you get on.
     
  13. buns

    buns
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    To add on running your speakers in....

    Connect one of the speakers out of phase, then set the speakers facinf each other, quite close together. Move them closer (or apart) until you find the sound level drops. Then Put a duvet over the top and let rip.

    Idea is that in doing this you make the signal from the speakers destructively interfere hence you reduce the sound level and can push them harder without disturbing anyone. Doing this little trick works better still if you have some music recorded in mono or if there is a mono button or something on your amp.

    Have fun!

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  14. mick23

    mick23
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    tried that about 2 weeks ago ,though i just played (static) from radio tuner, (low volume though) cheers
     

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