Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by joys_R_us, Jan 9, 2004.
...& they get better weather too
I posted this link days ago on another thread. Yep we're missing out a lot. Even ch9's breakfast show is in HD. A very rich country Australia is...
90% of the shows in HD are US sitcoms from CBS and ABC which are already in HD. That is why they are in HD.
Also some home grown HD progs I think. Just making available the technology shows how far behind we are in the UK
The amont of money the BBC waste every year would be well spent on HD
Oh hang in your in the US, lucky you!
Even US sitcoms would I watch in HD, and maybe a bit of American Football
Hi guys, I'm new here, but am passionate about getting HDTV in this country.
The BBC are already producing areasonable amount of HDTV stuff. Things like the Discovery Co-productions are probably going to be HDTV from now on becuase Discovery only want HDTV and are prepared to pay the extra for the BBC to make the programmes in this format.
The BBC can also upconvert DigiBeta material and get a very reasonable 720p version out the other end. I saw a Walking with Beasts up-conversion and it looked good.
So the BBC have all the HD equipment to make make HD progs but don't provide a HD channel for the UK. Something wrong somewhere!
I think you will find that the BBC production side and broadcast side are very different, AS an international producer they have to produce HD material, As a local Broadcaster they dont! IF ITV had not buggered uo digital terrestrial the way they have HD might have been possible! But as a SAT only system it will be limited and its hard enough to get good freeveiw and get it into homes let alone PUSH HD to our aging population!
IF europe was as integrated as the US or as widespread as AUS it would be possible but 7+ languages and cultures + regional devides to small audiences, I wont happen fast!
I supopose when x amount of analogue trasnmitters are swtiched off spectrum will be used for HD
Then again if they droped a number of the pointless channels on freeview 1 or 2 HD services couild be added, new box needed of course but a real seller I would think
If they used a much more efficient codec such as WM9, rather than obsolete MPEG2, there would be plenty of spectrum available for HD channels when analogue broadcasts end.
Yeah, from what I can tell the BBC has some HD equipment but not very much. Obviously most crews are still using standard def equipment, but for programmes like Rockface HD equipment is hired in.
Editing is mostly done outside the BBC and most production houses are stepping up to HDTV now to cope with demand, and obviously editing HDTV is similar to editing film using Avid etc.
I think using MPEG-4 for the transmission could solve a lot of problems regarding bandwidth, an HD service running alonside Freeview with seperate equipment (MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 equipment could be sold in one uber package later on!)
I still think the BBC needs to be a little bit more pushy about HDTV.
Surely this new WMP9 codec is not as good as good old MPEG2 ? I thught it was only meant for pc's
Well WMP9 can deliver HDTV apparently and DVD capable players are around the corner.
See here > www.wmvhd.com
MPEG4 can look impressive and DVD like.I think it is at a lower bit-rate than DVD at better quality though isn't it?
MPEG 4 would look good for HD because of the doubling of the resolution I assume.But MPEG 2 would look even better on a 36in screen.
Was'nt the excellent live broadcast on BBC 1 from under the ocean - forget the name now - a few months ago in HD ? (shown in the USA at the same time) About the only thing which is worth making in HD apart from Films is any live outside wildlife broadcast IMO
What about concerts, sporting events (F1, football etc.), Discovery documentaries (science/technical etc.)?
Everything looks immeasurably better in HD (apart from Gail Platt in Corrie ).
Gail looked good years ago, watch the Granada Plus episodes from 1992! It's what age does to you :-(
Yes probably right what you say. I'm not really in a position to say much about HD yet. I must buy one of those Skystar cards!
I have been pestering for analogue to be shut down to allow HDTV for 4 years now - it is why we went digital isn't it?
Australia had the right idea. They just went ahead and started up a proper terrestrial HDTV service 2 years ago now. It's not only the perfect country to live in but they have the perfect HDTV system also
I hate the UK!
It was SUPPOSED to be the case that we would move to digital and that would allow us to have HDTV. In fact, an MPEG-2 HDTV stream is 18mbps I think, which is far and above what is possible using MPEG 4.
Quick demo, these grabs were taken from an MPEG-4 xVid (open source MPEG-4, not closed like DivX) the file itself is quite large here are its stats:
Bit Rate: 2219 kb/s
Frame Rate: 23.976 fps
QF: 0.183 bits/pixel
Dimensions: 960x528 (1.82:1) [=20:11]
File Size: 697 MB (or 714,470 KB or 731,617,280 bytes)
Runtime: 00:41:27 (59,640 fr)
And enclosed is a screen grab, not the best display of how great it looks, but trust me at slightly higher bit rates MPEG-4 is cool!
Did anyone see the Matrix Reloaded trailer from the Apple quicktime site when it came it, the 99mb one. That was another great showcase of MPEG-4, although 99mb is slightly large for 2 minutes
OK - let's cut to the chase. Does anyone know when HDTV is coming to the UK? Any hints at all? I know it's possible to buy HD TV sets now. I have two specific questions:
When will HD DVD players hit the UK?
When will HD broadcast (terrestrial / cable / sat) hit the UK?
The answer to that question is probably 2010 at the very ealiest.
The only surefire way to get access to HD material before then will be via D-VHS, Blu-Ray DVD (or whatever it is called), Euro satellite or downloaded material from the Internet.
TV's are already starting to appear. The JVC for a start. Many Plasma/LCD screens are 720p ready, as are many video projectors. 1080i is rare, but is still available.
Personally I would like to see europe adopt a slightly increased definition service, possibly 1080p, as I know most 1080i material is shot progressive anyway, Rockface, the BBC's biggest HDTV programme is certainly a 1080p production.
So, as long as the Government listens to people who know what they are talking about we might get HDTV when analogue gets shut down. I am sure I am not alone when I say, I doubt this will happen in 2010
Hopefully it will be earlier than 2010, that's a long way off really. The technology is there, plenty of dosh about so let's go for it
I do agree, but if you think about it, its only 6 years off. The BBC are very unlikely to get approval to start a new HDTV service so soon after spending (wasting?) all their money on extra digital channels.
ITV, C4, C5 and Sky aren't likely to go there until people are prepared to pay money. Even if Sky did go HD it would require people buy a new DigiBox, one that properly supports MP@HL rather than the current box which seems to only just support MP@ML.
I think the answer could lie with Digital cable and either MWVHD or MPEG-4 HD.
Don't forget as well, MPEG-4 has a level of built in copy protection, so this could be a way to encourage the broadcasters to adopt a HD transmission path.
No it is not. 1080p24 is used for movie transfers and some TV shows to make it look like film. There is no cameras or equipment yet that supports 1080p at 50Hz or 60Hz. There isn't even MPEG standard for anything higher than 1080p30. 1080p24 sucks for anything that has any high motion. You need at least 50fps and preferably 60fps.
There must be a mistake in my information then, the BBC's HDTV production guide says:
Rockface is being shot on two Sony HDW900 camcorders hired from Panavision UK.
Panavision is also providing lenses and ancillary equipment for the shoot.
The images are being captured at 25 frames per second using the 1080p/25 format i.e.
1080-line, progressive scan at 25 frames per second.
Using a progressive scan mode produces film motion effect in camera. This cannot be
removed later. The use of the 25 frames per second progressive scan mode has been agreed with the BBC.
You are right. I completely forgot about those cams. These were developed for Lucas to shoot Star Wars. I did not know they did 25fps though. They must have modified them.
Also, here is some infomation that was recently in the BBC staff newspaper Ariel:
5 or 6 normal channels = 1 HD channel.
With the current freeview lineup, that sounds about right. Keep the main channels in HD, and dump the rest.
Even better, move to MPEg 4 and get 1HD channel for about 2-3 SD channels.
"MPEG4 is "only" 40% more efficient than MPEG2".
This is a statement from one of the engineers involved in the development of MPEG4/H264 so we should be careful with our expectations. Also MPEG4 requires a hell of hardware to decode.
We can get there if only the politicians/broadcasters would start planning to start with HDTV (let's say) in 2006.
Bush is dreaming of Mars yet we still live in SD-world.
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