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poor denon sound

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by perry ferrit, Oct 8, 2001.

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  1. perry ferrit

    perry ferrit
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    I have have just purchased a Denon AVC 1SE amp to replace a Denon 3801. I have found that the sound quality of the Denon AVC 1SE is nowhere near as good as the 3801 especially Neo 6 in music nor cinema mode. My 3801 sounded very dynamic with music through CD or MTV on Sky but the 1SE sounds poor in comparison. My speakers are Mission 773 fronts, Mission 77C1 centre and two pairs of Mission 77DS rears, which I know are not up to the quality of the amp but surely my 1SE should knock spots off the 3801. Do I have a faulty amp? Please help.
     
  2. uncle eric

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    Kevin,
    Something sounds very wrong here.
    I went from a Denon AVCA1D to an SE and found a marked improvement, particularly with music.
    I have listened at lenth to the 3801 and believe the AVCA1D (and A10SE) to be substantialy better on the music front.
    I would suggest that you check all your settings again.

    Eric
     
  3. ReTrO

    ReTrO
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    How long have you given the A1SE to run in?

    If it's almost new still then iot will need some time.
     
  4. perry ferrit

    perry ferrit
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    Hi mate, i have cheaked my settings over and over i have even tried deferent speaker settings and have reset proceser but my cd player still sounds crap in neo 6 music and cinema. On my 3801 mtv off sky sounded really good in neo 6 cinema and my tecnics cd
    was very dynamic in matrix dsp mode but on my avc-a1se both sound so poor i am thinking of sending my new amp back and asking for a replacment. Do you think i have a faulty amp or perhaps my speakers dont match the amp i know the speakers dont match the power of the amp but i dont intend to turn my amp up any were near full power. What a disapointment .
     
  5. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    Have you tried listening to your cd's as they were meant to be heard? i.e in stereophonic sound from 2 loudspeakers.

    Also describing your sound as "crap" is a little non-specific. Please explain what is so "crap" about the sound.

    There is no way that the A1SE shouldn't sound as good as the 3801. It should sound far far better, especially in stereo mode. And yup you should definitely think about partnering this amp with some decent speakers. A THX package at around the £2000 mark should do it justice.
     
  6. CarlB

    CarlB
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    I have recently bought the A1SE and the M&K 750 THX speaker package and my jaw is still somewhere on the floor!

    I always use 'Pure Direct' for CD (Arcam Alpha 7SE) and the sound quality is utterly fantastic. I never bother with DSP modes or anything like that - try 2-channel Pure Direct, the imaging is so good you could swear there was a gig in your room :)
     
  7. paiger

    paiger
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    Agreed, CD's should be listened to in pure 2 channel mode with the minimum of processing. If it don't sound good then, you have dodgy equipment. I can't see an amp like this would sound poor with reasonable Missions. A CD player should be hooked up to the amp with top quality phonos to an analogue input. In my opinion, optical or coax inputs never sound quite as good.

    Steve
     
  8. MarkB

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    That's all well and good but it does not get around the fact that NEO:6 was better on Kevin's 3801 using the same source.

    Take your amp back to the dealer. It should sound better than the 3801 in any mode.

    Mark
     
  9. perry ferrit

    perry ferrit
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    By sounding crap in neo 6 i mean lifeless the
    dynamics and life output from the rears on my 3801 are not there on the a1se, the output
    from the rears on my a1se is either to over powering and harsh or very dull and mudled.
    In pure direct mode the sound is very flat and dull and totally unenjoyable.It grieves me saying this but my 3801 knockes spots off my avc-a1se sound quality, have i got a faulty amp ????
     
  10. CARLOS

    CARLOS
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    Have you checked all your speaker connections to make sure they are in phase ?

    Also double check you haven`t got compression switched in on the amp !!

    Cheers Carlos
     
  11. Jim Robson

    Jim Robson
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    Try posting your thoughts on the AVC-A1SE Information Forum and I'm sure you'll receive some excellent advice. You'll certainly provoke a reaction when you tell them that your pride and joy sounds awful! If you're lucky some friendly fellow AVC-A1SE owner might come round and help you sort out your problem. Sadly, I tried to entice fellow owners round to help set up my one, with tea and buns, but nobody wanted to! :(

    Regards

    Jim :D

    PS I *believe* that direct radiating speakers are recommended as rears rather than your di/bi poles, for music, at any rate. Have you tried listening in 7 channel stereo too? I have 4x B&W 603 S2's as side surrounds/rear surrounds and it all sounds rather good to me most especially for club/dance music. :)

    [ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: Jim Robson ]
     
  12. Richard46

    Richard46
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    Hi Kevin
    Couple more thoughts; you have considered the speakers but what about the sources. You have just moved up to what should be a great piece of amplification by HC or Audio standards. Technics have made some very good budget/mid range CD players but perhaps the new amp is revelling weaknesses here that the 3801 Denon did not bring out. You don't say which model Technics or how old it is, but is this a possibility.
    Don't know if this could also apply to the Sky MTV sound quality as I have ITV Digital. Certainly MTV sounds ‘muddled' to me in Cinema modes.
    Have to go along with Sweetmate; Carl and Steve above about using 2 channels. ‘Muddled' is how CD's played through multi-channel amps always sound to me. My system sounds just like you describe if I accidentally put a CD on in multi-channel DVD mode.
    Good stereo places instruments and vocalists in particular places on a soundstage. Using multi-channel and /or DSP modes puts parts of these signals in the wrong places and/or ‘smears' the timing. You just end up with a wall (actually more like a fuzzy privet hedge) of sound in IMHO. Again perhaps the high quality amp is just making the muddle obvious. You say you have tried Direct mode on the A1SE does that mean 2 channel or just no DSP?
    Of course you could just have a dodgy amp.
    Richard
     
  13. Jase

    Jase
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    Guys

    You can adjust the settings for Pure Direct mode. All you have to do is engage Direct, then press mode select until channel level appears then adjust the levels i.e sub down to off or whatever you want. Then re-engage Pure direct mode. I use this to turn on/off the sub or change the bass level in Pure Direct mode.

    cheers
     
  14. Jim Robson

    Jim Robson
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    Yes, Jase *is* correct as the manual goes on to say in Notes "The system setup function cannot be used when the Pure Direct mode is set or the "Video Off" setting is selected. To use the system set up function, cancel the Pure Direct mode or select the "Video On" settings. Perhaps I should have RTFUM properly!

    Regards

    Jim :D

    RT"U"FM "U"=Useless!
     
  15. perry ferrit

    perry ferrit
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    Hi thanks every one for trying to help me sort out my amp problem, still no change in
    sound quality so i am sending it back to dealer for replacment (unless anyone can think of something else) Just one question how do i check to see if i have compression
    swiched in on my amp ??????
     
  16. sweetmate

    sweetmate
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    Hey kevin,

    If your new replacement A1SE still has "poor" sound quality, do you wanna do a swap with my A10SE + POA-T10?

    My amp sounds great in every mode, and I guess I'll be willing to take that crappy A1SE pile of poo off your hands, to help a guy out ;) ;) ;)

    [ 10-10-2001: Message edited by: sweetmate ]
     
  17. Jim Robson

    Jim Robson
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    Richard46 said "You say you have tried Direct mode on the A1SE does that mean 2 channel or just no DSP?" Pure Direct only uses the front left and right speaker and has no enhancements whatsoever and nothing cannot be adjusted, bar the volume, obviously. The sub can be switched on or off in the speaker configuration and that's it. Even the display is turned off for the purest of sound.

    Regards

    Jim :D

    "Pure Direct mode for music is played with an extremely high level of sound quality. All video circuits are turned off so that music signals can be reproduced with high quality. When an analogue input mode or EXT IN mode is selected, the digital processing circuitry is also turned off to achieve analog sound with even higher purity!

    "Direct mode is used to achieve very good quality 2-channel sound while watching images. In this mode the audio signals bypass such circuits as the tone circuit and are transmitted directly, resulting in very good quality sound."
     
  18. Richard46

    Richard46
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    Thanks Jim
    That sounds as Audiophile as an AV Amp can get.
    Richard
     

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