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Poll: Big Brother closing credits - how crisp are they on your LCD TV?

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by ianh64, Jul 3, 2005.

?
  1. My LCD display shows these crisply and are easily readable

    18.2%
  2. My LCD display shows the credits but not crisply although credits are easily readable

    9.1%
  3. My LCD display shows the credits but not crisply. I have great difficulty reading the credits

    12.1%
  4. I have a Plasma display. The credits are beautifully crisp

    6.1%
  5. I have a Plasma display. The credits are not totally crisp to some degree

    3.0%
  6. I have a CRT display. The credits are beautifully crisp

    18.2%
  7. I have a CRT display. The credits are not totally crisp to some degree

    6.1%
  8. Never watched Big Brother and never intend to so I don't know the answer

    27.3%
  1. ianh64

    ianh64
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    Just curious...

    The Big Brother/Balamory closing credits feature fast moving right to left scrolling text. I would like to know how crisp the scrolling text is on your TV or if they are difficult to read because they are blurred.

    There are a number of options for LCD screens, plus one each for plasma and crt to see if these technologies also suffer this problem.

    IMHO, just because there is blurring on these credits, they do not reflect real world use and it is highly likely that you will not see motion blur under normal use.

    Options:
    1. My LCD display shows these crisply and are easily readable.
    2. My LCD display shows these but they are not totally crisp, but the credits are readable at normal viewing distance.
    3. My LCD display shows these with large amounts of motion blur. I have difficulty in reading the names or it is not possible to read them at all.
    4. I have a Plasma display. The credits are beautifully crisp.
    5. I have a Plasma display. The credits are not crisp which may or may not affect the ability for me to read the credits.
    6. I have a CRT display. The credits are beautifully crisp.
    7. I have a CRT display. The credits are not crisp which may or may not affect the ability for me to read the credits.
    8. What is Big Brother/Balamory?

    Please be totally honest in your answer.

    [EDIT]BB titles may be static now. An alternative test is Balamory on CBeebies or the PAL DVE test disc. Please use the vote button to vote.[/EDIT]

    -Ian
     
  2. David Mackenzie

    David Mackenzie
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    Sony KLV26HG2 shows all Video-originated (ie interlaced) scrolling horizontal credits as very smudged. Oddly, it's easier to read them if you don't look straight at them and instead focus on the centre of the screen.
     
  3. DanH

    DanH
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    Mine is number 3 on a Hitachi 32LD7200 on freeview. (Cheap freeview box with cheap scart cable)
    Can you give an explanation as to why this happens? You both seem to know a great deal about things like this. As said in the first post, other fast motion doesnt seem to trouble the Hitachi much at all, but the BB credits are horribly smeared.
     
  4. ianh64

    ianh64
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    OK, 194 odd views and only 14 votes. Does that mean that 180 of you see the problem with your LCD but do not want to admit to it?

    It would be nice to get some more results to see how much of a problem (OK, it is a very isolated scenario) it is. It also appears that it may not be only LCD's that suffer with the problem also seen on CRT's and plasma.

    I did however catch the tail end of BB last night. They had static closing credits rather than the horizontal scrolling ones. Maybe they changed them because they were unreadable on LCD displays although judging from the poll, it may affect plasma and some CRT's too. There was a similar problem with Balamory (whats the story in Balamori... get out of my head tune) has a similar problem but in the latest series they showed down the 100MPH titles to about 50MPH. That was perfectly crisp on my CRT, the fast ones were totally unreadable on my Xelos but I can now read the slower version.

    If you don't see BB or their credits are static, you can use Balamory closing credits instead or if you have the DVE test disc, the 'Extron' splash screen also exhibits the same problem.

    -Ian
     
  5. Rob1698

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    This problem was introduced by "100 Hz TVs", not by LCD or Plasma.
    It is not caused by LCD latency but by de-interlacing.

    When horizontally scrolling titles for TV are generated, the odd and even frames show the title in different positions (it has moved a little in the 1/50 second between the odd and even frame). When the TV combines these frames (de-interlacing) the two do not fit.
    It requires serious CPU power to detect this situation and do some compensation. This is why the best TVs don't suffer from this, but cheaper ones do.

    However, as said, this was true for 100 Hz scanning CRT TVs as well. The old-fashioned 50 Hz TV did not have this problem because each frame is drawn at the correct position in space and time.
     
  6. Andy3

    Andy3
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    Good explanation Rob. I've just been running around the house to watch the Balamory credits on as many TV's as possible. Here's what I found:

    Our main TV (JVC LT26DS6BJ LCD) Skydigi: Fairly clear and readable. Freeview: rather 'bitty' but still readable.

    Bedroom (Grundig 17" LCD) with Philips Freeview box: Smeary and desaturated, barely readable.

    Strewth, those credits are a bit quick - I suspect even a CRT would struggle!

    The Grundig/freeview combination does not seem happy with the slow sideways text on Sky News or BBC24. It is jerky and nasty. The JVC shows it just like a CRT set - smooth and clear.
     
  7. DanH

    DanH
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  8. Rob1698

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    The problems with film scanning are much worse in NTSC than in PAL. Or actually, much worse in 60Hz vertical scanning than in 50Hz. The 3:2 pulldown is not done in 50Hz countries. Here the 24fps film is scanned at 25fps (this means the movie is always 4% shorter in duration on TV than in the theatre, but this is usually more than made good for by inserting commericals :) ).
    Each film frame is transformed to a single TV field consisting of an odd and even interlaced frame, there is no alternation of 2 and 3 frames here.
    So a scanned film should be easy to de-interlace on a TV. Usually there is special recognition logic in the TV for 3:2 pulldown and scanned film.

    But true productions made on video are not that simple to handle. Different manufacturers take different approaches at de-interlacing, and this is where the expensive sets are different from the cheap ones. Truely professional de-interlacers cost 10 times as much as an LCD TV, but of course this does not mean we will not eventually see the same techniques used in consumer TVs. After all, the prices of digital signal processing equipment are falling all the time, and the amount of DSP power found in todays consumer equipment would not have been believed 10 years ago.
     

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