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Police Officers should be required to have a Degree

bishbashboshdj

Prominent Member
All officers 'should have degrees', says College of Policing - BBC News

Reported today in the BBC.

Its a tough one, especially as I think the current university fees and loans system is absolutely disgusting.

But I do think there needs to be a better quality of education required from officers, especially with the level of responsibility they've got, however I think a degree is a bit too far. Policing has changed a lot, however the standards required haven't, and are not uniform across the country.

A HNC/HND would be a better qualification to ask for in my opinion.
 

johntheexpat

Distinguished Member
An Ordinary Joe can make an excellent copper. Why would anyone want to deprive the Police Force of potentially excellent candidates? In job training is a much better idea.

I also know a lot of really thick and utterly unreasonable graduates who I would never want to see in the Police. But if the pool of candidates is restricted, then there is more chance of them getting a position they really shouldn't ever be considered for.

Policing used to be about people skills and common sense with a fair degree of intelligence.

But that was the good old days. Now, it seems, policing is about zero public contact and hi-tech monitoring of "interesting" subjects in "interesting" cases. From that point of view, I suppose, everything I said above is now irrelevant and ultra clever geeks are needed and people skills are out. A bit of a shame if you are mugged or your grannies house is robbed, but we have all become used to everyday crimes being of no interest to the Police, so it doesn't really matter.
 

bishbashboshdj

Prominent Member
An Ordinary Joe can make an excellent copper. Why would anyone want to deprive the Police Force of potentially excellent candidates? In job training is a much better idea.

I also know a lot of really thick and utterly unreasonable graduates who I would never want to see in the Police. But if the pool of candidates is restricted, then there is more chance of them getting a position they really shouldn't ever be considered for.

Policing used to be about people skills and common sense with a fair degree of intelligence.

But that was the good old days. Now, it seems, policing is about zero public contact and hi-tech monitoring of "interesting" subjects in "interesting" cases. From that point of view, I suppose, everything I said above is now irrelevant and ultra clever geeks are needed and people skills are out. A bit of a shame if you are mugged or your grannies house is robbed, but we have all become used to everyday crimes being of no interest to the Police, so it doesn't really matter.

I think thats due to lack of resources rather than a change in policing.

There's also a lot of thick and utterly unreasonable police, and I don't see whats wrong with a standardised level of education across the forces...

However currently we're in a situation where we had some very good community police officers (who seem to have dissappeared, I bet they've been stuck on desk duties due to cuts), some old school coppers who leek of testosterone from every orifice, a bunch of spotty 23 year olds with a hard on for authoritarianism, and a gaggle of hobby bobbies (PCSO) who seem to be people who just want to interfere with peoples everyday lives.

A HNC/HND in public services would be a good start as a minimum educational criteria in my opinion, and could be done as in work training, and I'd like to see it funded too, but I doubt that will happen.
 

Cliff

Distinguished Member
Policing used to be about people skills and common sense with a fair degree of intelligence.
Agreed. I don't think having a degree would be helpful in the least...
The police should have there own methods of recruiting and deciding which type of work you would be suited to.

Mind you... in the last decade or so, it seems that government policy was that everyone should have a degree.... But that's another issue.;)
 

bishbashboshdj

Prominent Member
Mind you... in the last decade or so, it seems that government policy was that everyone should have a degree.... But that's another issue.;)

Well it seems like Government policy is that everyone from a well off background should have a university education.

Whilst everyone else is obviously not worthy, if they don't want something like a 50K debt.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Not forgetting that students from low income families get state support in the form of maintenance grants, it's the students from higher income families ( ie the old middle classes) who have to fund themselves. Obviously those families where 50K is pocket money and so can afford to leave university with no debts, are in a rather different category :)
 

bishbashboshdj

Prominent Member
Not forgetting that students from low income families get state support in the form of maintenance grants, it's the students from higher income families ( ie the old middle classes) who have to fund themselves. Obviously those families where 50K is pocket money and so can afford to leave university with no debts, are in a rather different category :)

Students, your maintenance grants are about to disappear

Maintenance grants are 1/3 of the yearly cost of fees (well just over).

They're also being scrapped
Students, your maintenance grants are about to disappear
 

bishbashboshdj

Prominent Member
A 50k debt at low interest and a very favourable payment plan.
Interest rates average out about 3.9%
Interest Rates - Student Loans Company

If you're a tesco clubcard customer you can get one at 3.6%
Loans - Apply for a personal loan from Tesco Bank

They only real benefit of student loans is that you don't pay them back if you earn under a certain threshold, and if you leave the country for a certain amount of time you don't pay them back either.

But comparitively to commercial loans they're not as favourable as you imply, they get sold on regularly (mine have been sold on twice since I left uni, both times meaning a change in conditions). And the student loans company also have a habit of totally cocking up, they didn't pay me my second year loan, despite me chasing it up, and but then when I got my statement, it was still being charged.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Students, your maintenance grants are about to disappear

Maintenance grants are 1/3 of the yearly cost of fees (well just over).

They're also being scrapped
Students, your maintenance grants are about to disappear

The maintenance grant is for living expenses, not for paying fees :D so it's irrelevant what proportion of the fees it is. And yes it's being scrapped, which levels the field for everyone, they can all borrow all the expenses required to fund themselves through University.

And as you say the difference between a Student Loan and a Tesco's loan is that Tesco's won't say you don't have to pay them anything unless you earn over £25K a year ( or whatever the current figure is). And that is a huge difference.

And the student loans company also have a habit of totally cocking up, they didn't pay me my second year loan, despite me chasing it up, and but then when I got my statement, it was still being charged.

I'm sorry you had problems, but that doesn't mean the concept of taking personal responsibility for funding your own graduate education is flawed. Perhaps things have improved since you were there, was it recently? or when they started the scheme?
 

bishbashboshdj

Prominent Member
The maintenance grant is for living expenses, not for paying fees :D so it's irrelevant what proportion of the fees it is. And yes it's being scrapped, which levels the field for everyone, they can all borrow all the expenses required to fund themselves through University.

And as you say the difference between a Student Loan and a Tesco's loan is that Tesco's won't say you don't have to pay them anything unless you earn over £25K a year ( or whatever the current figure is). And that is a huge difference.



I'm sorry you had problems, but that doesn't mean the concept of taking personal responsibility for funding your own graduate education is flawed. Perhaps things have improved since you were there, was it recently? or when they started the scheme?

It was quite a long time ago

The threshold for repayment is nowhere near £25k
You start repaying when you earn over £17,335
Or
You start repaying when you earn over £21,000.
depending one when your loan was taken out.

Repaying your student loan - GOV.UK

However my point was that the interest rate isn't actually any lower than commercially available rates as @Aclass Technology mentioned.
Whilst your loan interest rate is low during your studies (interest + 3%), when you reach the time that realistically you're going to be able to pay it back, they're near if not equal to commercial interest.

However graduating with debt of £55k for what tends to be a pretty low quality education, I feel is unjustifiable..... I don't understand why students don't apply abroad to countries like Holland, their fees are capped at £1k a year, and they teach in English.

This is all a bit off topic however.
 

Jules

Distinguished Member
The police need to represent all society and it helps if our police have some life experience. That has very little to do with having a degree.

Having the 'common touch', a cool head and an ability to respond well under pressure is worth far more than a degree.

I know some thick people with degrees, and some extremely smart and articulate people without any formal education.

The idea is a nonsense.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Whilst your loan interest rate is low during your studies (interest + 3%),
That depends on which plan you are on doesn't it? :D To quote your link: You currently pay interest of 0.9% on Plan 1 (BTW it's inflation +3% on plan 2)
But as you say, it's off topic. Who do I formally chastise for bringing the subject up?:)
 
Last edited:
Back on topic.

From what i understand and only briefly heard it on Radio 5 this morning the idea was not that a candidate had to be educated to degree standard but that police officers would need a degree specifically in policing (or some other wording) . Subtle difference
 

bishbashboshdj

Prominent Member
Back on topic.

From what i understand and only briefly heard it on Radio 5 this morning the idea was not that a candidate had to be educated to degree standard but that police officers would need a degree specifically in policing (or some other wording) . Subtle difference

I don't think its a particularly bad idea...... Like I said though, I think an HND/HNC level/style qualification would be more suited to this particular public service.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
I think we all pretty much agree about that :thumbsup: There is nothing "magic" about a degree that would suddenly make a Policeman, Fireman, or Coast Guard better at their job because they could put Bachelor of X after their name.
 

bishbashboshdj

Prominent Member
I think we all pretty much agree about that :thumbsup: There is nothing "magic" about a degree that would suddenly make a Policeman, Fireman, or Coast Guard better at their job because they could put Bachelor of X after their name.

You've got to be a proper pretentious graduate to stick Batchelor after your name :rotfl:
 
D

Deleted member 293381

Guest
There is a 'fast track' system already in place for young police officers with degrees who also show some aptitude.

Nurses require formal qualifications, maybe the government is thinking something along similar lines for 'everyday' police officers.
 

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