Podcast: Large Screen HDR TV or Projector For Home Cinema + Best of the Month

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
This week we ask if a large screen HDR TV or a projector is best for a home cinema system and Greg looks at a TPLink whole house mesh Wi-Fi system for the home. Plus it is the end of the month so we round-up the best music, films and TV shows to watch...

00:00:00 - Start
00:00:29 - Welcome and catchups
00:18:20 - Competitions
00:21:00 - Large screen TV vs projector - which is best?
00:46:50 - Spotify news - lossless tier coming
00:54:10 - Daft Punk split up news
00:58:48 - TP-Link Deco X20 mesh wi-fi system preview
01:05:10 - Ed's best album, vinyl & playlist of the month
01:10:37 - Best films of the month
01:15:30 - Movie & TV news
01:22:47 - New & imminent Blu-rays
01:27:57 - Best TV shows of the month
01:41:17 - Disney+ Star launched
01:54:00 - Podcast competition

Presented by Phil Hinton with Ed Selley, Cas Harlow, Greg Hook and Tom Davies

Subscription link: AVForums Podcast

Links to the audio versions will appear once the podcast has been live-streamed on Wednesday the 24th.

Direct Link


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Support us by making a donation at avforums / Streamlabs
Become a Patron at AVForums is creating Videos | Patreon
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We have both. The main home cinema in our media room features a 108" screen with an XGIMI H3 projector, Ugoos AM6 Plus TV box (running CoreElec), and Bose Lifestyle V35 sound system. In the master bedroom we have a Philips 55" HDR TV, Ugoos AM6 Pro (running Kodi), and Bose Lifestyle V35.

The projector is vastly superior to the TV in terms of overall image quality, probably due to the screen being 4x the size of the television, but also because the H3's colour saturation is sublime.

Personally, I think TV's are the past now. Projection technology has advanced so much in the last decade and short throw laser projectors bring the big screen experience to those with limited space. A good quality projector can be had for around the same price as a good TV.

I look forward to hearing what others have to say, especially if they are like myself with the opportunity to evaluate both over a long term.
 

xxGBHxx

Well-known Member
If I could get a 130" scope TV screen under 10k I'd jump at it.

My dream is to have an 8k capable, 2000nit micro LED screen with full REC2020 gamut all at 130" and scope ratio in my cinema. Until then there is absolutely nothing under £200k that can come close to a 130" projector.

In the main living room where I'm limited to 55" then a TV is a no brainer and no projector will likely ever get near to 500 nits let alone 2000 nits.

Ultimately from a technological viewpoint as good as projectors might get I doubt they will ever match a TV of comparable size. If those Samsung Micro LED panels ever become mainstream and something like £200 for 30*30 panel (so a 130" scope screen comes in under £10k) I doubt you'll ever see a projector again for any fixed screen installation.

G
 

LicensedTaximan

Well-known Member
At present and for the last six or so years a Panny 50" plasma VT30 which as many of you know is 3D capable. But when it does expire a nice 65" jobby but hopefully not for a looong time yet. Then a pull down screen behind a ceiling beam and a projector capable of 3D as there are no 3D TV's available. The only thing is wifey doesn't know about the screen and projector bit. :cool: Or possibly the 65" replacement.... yet. 🤭 🤫 By the way my avatar is a blue hybrid taxi now instead of the red one.
 

bobbybuilder59

Active Member
Projector all the way. We have Lg TV for every day viewing and a 150 inch screen that comes down in front of it for movies football and good Netflix series etc. I've had this setup for about 15 years with first projector a InFocus 480p a couple of optoma 1080p projectors, and now my Christmas present to me, a Benq 4k. For me a TV can not get close to showing the detail that even a 1080p projector can show because of the size. Unless you sit very close you just won't see it on even a large TV, never seen the point in a 4k TV and 8k is just for people that think big numbers somehow make it better.
 

CinemaDude

Standard Member
This week we look at how our buying habits have changed for AV and Hi-FI equipment during lockdown, we ask if a large screen HDR TV or a projector is best for a home cinema system and Greg looks at a TPLink whole house mesh Wi-Fi system for the home. Plus it is the end of the month so we round-up the best music, films and TV shows to watch...

00:00:00 - Start

Presented by Phil Hinton with Ed Selley, Cas Harlow, Greg Hook and Tom Davies

Subscription link: AVForums Podcast

Links to the audio versions will appear once the podcast has been live-streamed on Wednesday the 24th.

Direct Link


To watch the video with the live chat, click the YouTube logo in the video window
Support us by making a donation at avforums / Streamlabs
Become a Patron at AVForums is creating Videos | Patreon
Your donations help us to improve the website, publish more editorial and make better podcasts. Thank you.
Here's the question you have to ask. What to you want the environment in which you watch movies to feel like? If you are really interested in recreating a "movie theatre" atmosphere and psychotically placing yourself in a movie theatre as opposed to your "TV room," then a projected image is the only way to go. They call it a Home Theatre and not a Home TV room for a reason.

There are the two issues that everyone debates in the"which is better" discussions -- the brightness nits issue and the size. There is a third issue that is rarely discussed and that is the sound system and how well it can match the "perfect" theatre system, be it 5.1, 7.1 or Atmos (you know...All Over .1)

I say, unless you can darken a room as close enough to what the movie theatre environment looks like, it matters not if you have a 2000 nit image in front of you if it is in a brightly lit room, you still only have a TV den and not a movie theater, and that's great, if you are not interested in trying to recreate a cinema environment. Many people aren't and that's fine. But if you are, then watching a movie in a room with the lights on so the occupants can chit chat and socialize simply won't cut it; if people are talking in a lit room while a movie is running, no matter how bright the image to allow for the high ambient light levels, then you are stuck with a display screen which, no matter how big, will always be a TV and a room that will never be a cinema.

And yes, let's talk about size; the fellow or gal goes out to find the biggest TV they can afford, but no matter how big, the size rarely seems to inspire them to treat it as if it were a cinema screen being placed in movie theatre. It simply remains and is treated like just a big TV screen is, It never seems to inspire the owner to add things that advance the look of a cinema -- no masking (in fact the big thing is to try to get that bevel to almost be invisible), never any curtains with curtain lights -- those very expensive TVs always remain as just that -- TVs.

But put in a video projector and a screen, even if it is smaller than the largest available TV, and a whole new mindset emerges. A large screen, fed movie content by a projector, is just the opposite. Those screens tend to be enhanced with the accouterments of a cinema. Projection setups by their very nature motivate the owners to adorn that space with what you find in a cinema, from comfy seats with cup holders, curtains, movie posters, etc. A friend's son, in his first apartment insisted on turning his modest living room into a cinema. He didn't have a lot to spend, but still once that projector and screen were set up, he did everything he could, even if he had to resort to inventive things like purchasing inexpensive strip LEDs to tape around the perimeter of the room to mimic the isle lights in a cinema. Once he started that movie, anyone who dared speak above a whisper and about anything more than "pass the salt" for his buttered popcorn, would get thrown out. As it should be!

But of course the elephant in the room that is rarely discussed or even acknowledged issue that is by its nature, essential to a credible sound system and ONLY addressable when using a projection system, but impossible to address if using TV display, at least until they can figure out how to make an acoustically transparent TV panel.

Any cinema sound technician or designer of cinema sound installations will tell you that UNLESS THE CENTER CHANNEL IS EXACTLY THE SAME AS THE LEFT AND RIGHT CHANNEL, you are doomed. People with TVs spend huge amounts of money on a TWO CHANNEL system (Left and Right channels -- still thinking in stereo, not cinema configurations) and then somehow delude themselves into thinking that a wimpy little soundbar under that TV is somehow going to cut it as a Center channel -- you know, the Center channel where the majority of dialogue is mixed. It's a joke. And they aren't laughing when they complain, "We can't hear what they are saying...the music and the effects are WAY to loud." Take a guess why, TV viewer!

For Cinema Sound, people have to stop thinking two channel stereo. Cinema sound, the way it's mixed and the way it's played back is ALWAYS with THREE screen front channels, not two. A TV screen with the most robust and high-end Left and Right speaker systems that the cinemaphile can afford sitting on either side of it, and then an unmatched soundbar stuck under it is simply sound done wrong. Now I know, it's the best that can be done until they invent that 2000 nit TV panel that is sound transparent, but no matter the reason, it is the nature of the beast: you simply can't put speakers behind a TV and to get true cinema sound, you need three identical speaker systems consisting of identical power capacity, identical reproduction characteristics and they need to be place BEHIND that screen so as to create the necessary illusion of sound emanating from and married to the image. That illusion, BTW, is more important that you think; if you can SEE a speaker bin, your mind tends to demand you identify that location as the source of the sound. With speakers behind a projection screen, you can't see the sound source so the illusion that the sound is spread evenly across the entire width of the screen becomes more real. If you can see those two boxes on either side of the screen, illusion is broke and the sound will always be locked to those two locations. And of course, without a speaker system identical to the Left and Right placed behind the screen in the center, you are then just stuck with the laughable soundbar to do all the work of what should be a Center channel of the same make and model of the Left and Right. Or as some folks do, trying desperately to adhere to the cinema tech's hard rule of THREE identical speaker systems for the screen channel to adequately reproduce cinema soundtracks, they'll raise up the TV and put an identical speaker system under it for the Center channel. Nice try, but that identical Center speaker is still not in the temporal alignment with the Left and Right speakers; more than likely it's going to have to live on its side with the high frequency driver no where near in the same plane as it's L & R siblings.

So it is really not debate as to what's "better," rather than what are you trying to achieve as an overall, psychological effect of the space. Do you want to have a Home Cinema or a TV/game room? If you really want to get serious about recreating a movie cinema, then video projection with an acoustically transparent screen is THE way to go, and don't buy a stereo pair...buy 3 identical screen channel speakers. There is a reason almost all AV Processors have three identical power outputs for the front channels and not two. You have to get that two channel stereo mind set out of your brain and think CINEMA!

And as for 3D, which for some of us is like magic on steroids and for which I will forever spit on the ground any time I hear the names Sansung or LG, video projection is the only way you can go. For someone who has a library of almost every 3D movie ever released, for a Home Cinema not able to show those films in 3D is just unthinkable. This has gone on long enough; I will let the other passionate 3D lovers out there wax poetic about the glories of the depth of 3D. It's stereo for the eyeballs and just as impressive. For those 3D haters out there, I say they should be forced to have to watch movies only in mono sound.
 
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I can't believe it. I was seduced to watch this podcast because you were going to cover TV vs. projector. I've been listening to total nonsense that has nothing to do with the subject for 16 minutes. Never, ever again! I'm out of here!!

Thanks to the other posters who provided far more interesting material on the subject. Bye!
 

Phil Hinton

Editor
Staff member
I can't believe it. I was seduced to watch this podcast because you were going to cover TV vs. projector. I've been listening to total nonsense that has nothing to do with the subject for 16 minutes. Never, ever again! I'm out of here!!

Thanks to the other posters who provided far more interesting material on the subject. Bye!
I'm sorry to hear that, what in particular were you looking forward to hearing and what would you like us to cover?
We do have a section at the start of the podcast that we cover what we have been doing etc. and competitions, which is the way we start every podcast and looking at when you posted your comment it would have been during that segment.
 

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member
@LiquidAssFrance The first post of this thread now shows the times at which the various items start, and you will see that the TV vs Projector debate started 21 minutes after the start of the podcast. Your post #8 above was written 17 minutes after the podcast started, and even allowing for three minutes for you to finish the post the discussion would have started a minute or two after you departed in high dudgeon. If you are still with me, you will see that the debate, having started just after you left, lasted for over 25 minutes, and I'm sure that you would find it interesting if you could bring yourself to listen to the replay.

And, it's a live broadcast, and sometimes things take longer or shorter than intended depending on what the podcast contributors say and also depending on the comments made in the live chat window, so the advertised pre-program timings must be regarded as subject to a little flexibility. Cut Mr Hinton and his colleagues some slack. If you don't come back here to listen to the TV vs Projector debate (to which you can now go directly without having to listen to the preceding 20 minutes), your loss.
 

Evinger

Distinguished Member
Thanks for another interesting Podcast guys. Always enjoy the mix of topics.

Unfortunately I'll never now be in a position to have a Home Cinema room, but we have our small alcove in the living room, & I'd settle for an upgrade to a 65" OLED (Missus allowing) & something like a Focal Sib Evo 5.1.4 system with appropriate AVR. Luckily, shutters allow us to truly black out the room so at least we've got that bit already! :thumbsup:
 

SonOfSJ

Well-known Member
@LiquidAssFrance I hadn't read your post #2 when I wrote my post #8. Clearly, anyone who has a 108" projector screen and associated equipment in one room, plus more stuff in another room, takes his AV very seriously.

Come back and listen to the segment from 21 minutes elapsed to almost 47 minutes. Although you may not agree with everything that is said!
 
I can't believe it. I was seduced to watch this podcast because you were going to cover TV vs. projector. I've been listening to total nonsense that has nothing to do with the subject for 16 minutes. Never, ever again! I'm out of here!!

Thanks to the other posters who provided far more interesting material on the subject. Bye!
Thanks for the heads-up! I was going to listen to it anyway though but did have a comment to leave and that was projectors are way to noisy! I will post a link that covers the topic better for you:


This review by Phil talks about projectors and TVs a lot and comparing them.
 

Queens Pawn

Active Member
Thanks for discussion on projector vs tv.

For my small (8ft viewing distance) dedicated room with full 5.1 set-up, the choice is a projector displaying a 78" image or a 75" TV - so image size isn't much of a factor.

But, I feel watching a 75" or 85" TV in a dedicated room would still be like ... watching a TV.
A lounge does that better.
 

Gilbers

Active Member
@Phil Hinton - has any thought been given to making the site ad free for Patreon supporters? I'm sure you'd get plenty of people prepared to sign up for that particular perk! Presumably you could "price in" any corresponding loss of advertising revenue?
 
@LiquidAssFrance I hadn't read your post #2 when I wrote my post #8. Clearly, anyone who has a 108" projector screen and associated equipment in one room, plus more stuff in another room, takes his AV very seriously.

Come back and listen to the segment from 21 minutes elapsed to almost 47 minutes. Although you may not agree with everything that is said!
Sorry I have not had time to get back to you. I've been very busy and will take the time to watch the relevant section of the podcast as soon as possible, although that might not be before the weekend.

Yes, I do take my home cinema seriously. It is my #1 passion and, although I love my current system, I'm very open to improving it which is why I enjoy hearing the experiences of others, regardless of the system they are using. Sometimes, one tiny idea can make a whole world of difference.
 
... but did have a comment to leave and that was projectors are way to noisy!
Flecky, some years back I would have agreed with you. Indeed my previous projector, a Panasonic AT6000 was noisy unless you switched it to Eco mode. Even then, you could still hear it although it was considerably quieter.

Today's LED projectors are now so quiet you can hardly hear them. My current XGIMI H3 gives a very low hissing sound when no sound is coming from the speakers. It isn't the slightest bit annoying. And, when you play anything through the projector, it is impossible to hear any fan noise whatsoever.
 
I'm sorry to hear that, what in particular were you looking forward to hearing and what would you like us to cover?
I have not yet had the time to watch the replay but I will do that ASAP.

Since last summer when I got my latest XGIMI projector, I have become convinced that TV's are a thing of the past. Mini LED projectors can easily replace an HD TV set and although most will only play in 1080p at best, I defy anyone to notice the difference compared with a 4K image. Sure, there is a difference, but for someone living in a flat with limited space, a mini projector will change his world because he will enjoy a much larger image with zero pixelation.

I really only wanted to hear the podcast to get an idea of how others see the current comparison between these 2 supports and perhaps pick up some tips to improve my current setup.
 

Pecker

Distinguished Member
Lots of great discussion, and it's just about opinions, but here goes.

For me, we don't have 2 things to compare, but three.

There's a 'tv set up'. There a home projector set up. Then there's a 'proper' cinema. At each step we have a greater 'scale' but a lesser quality. Unless you have the crappest telly, most basic projector, or local full-blown IMAX/dolby cinema.

I've had a home cinema projector/screen big enough to (quite literally) fill the wall, with an acoustically transparent screen, etc.

I've had (counts....) 7 'cinema rooms', with 4 different projector screens, usually swapping from projector, to TV, and back, then back again.

My current set up is a 65" OLED and 7.1 surround, and overall it's my favourite. The 'scale' isn't there. But then again, compared to a 'proper' cinema, the scale wasn't there with home projection, either. But the quality is superb. And you know what? Five minutes into a (good) film, you lose that anyway.

Recently, I've bought a small handful of films on UHD (I think I'm currently on about 15 after a year). But I've had more jaw-dropping moments with these on my OLED than with anything before.

Projection, more and more, is becoming a self-defeating, crippled concept. You simply can't shine a light through a piece of 35mm film which is bright enough to sufficiently strong enough to give tv performance, whilst it simultaneously being dim enough to see all of the contrast of that piece of film. Ditto the digital equivalent.

Please, don't get me wrong. When today's TVs can be changed into wall-fillers for a reasonable price, I'll be at the front of the queue.

But for now, it's either enjoy the scale, or enjoy the quality. And OLED is that good, that the latter trumps the former for me.

Were we to move house, and we'd won the lottery, and I could have a cinema room kitted out as I liked, I'd buy the largest (I think that's currently 85") OLED I could, rather than any projector-based system.
 

Toon Army

Well-known Member
Thanks gents - Interesting discussion on large screen TVs v projectors and whilst I'm firmly in the former camp for many of the reasons highlighted, it's always good to keep abreast of all the technology out there. Shame Steve was not around for his contribution. Any chance of including room treatments in the future - an often under-looked aspect in my opinion.

Good to hear Greg's comments on the mesh system. With streaming being an integral part of most AV and audio systems today ( plus working/schooling from home ), people need to ensure they have a wi-fi setup fit for purpose. I installed a BT Whole Home system a few years ago and it copes with all the household demands. One tip, hardwire where possible. It also provided the ability to control the kid's access when they were younger.
 
Pecker and TA, great comments!
This is proof that there are always at least 2 versions to any story. Shutting out those that you don't want people to hear, aka censorship, as is the method of preference of those running our countries today, will not make the opposing versions disappear. Personally, I'm eager to hear both sides of the tale because you learn so much from those who have experiences that differ from your own.
 

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