Please sign here if you'd like to see an OLED with 3D in the future

Discussion in 'OLED TVs Forum' started by aido, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. aido

    aido
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    OK let's see how many 3D fans are really out there - as you've seen 3D has gone from the OLEDs in 2017 because it has been dropped at the panel level.

    I feel a bit like the village idiot posting this as it's too late to change anything but as paying consumers if we don't ask we don't get!

    Please just sign this if you'd like to see 3D pop up in the future on an OLED even if it is a lower end model with lower nits than the panels without 3D.

    LG Electronics: LG Electronics - Please revive 3D on a 2018 OLED TV
     
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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  2. aido

    aido
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    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
  3. Chrisrosevilla

    Chrisrosevilla
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    I've posted on HDTV test (UK) and FlatpanelsHD (US) thanking you & av forums for your petition with a link.
     
  4. aido

    aido
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    Brilliant thanks @Chrisrosevilla :)

    I'm intrigued to see if we get a burst once the guys in the USA start waking up!
     
  5. aido

    aido
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    It's up to almost 200 signatures now - I don't think it would have the same number as the HDR game mode but still interesting to see at least it's not just me wanting a 3D option in the future - thanks to all that have signed so far!
     
  6. aido

    aido
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    @Stuart Wright / @Steve Withers / @Mark Hodgkinson - it looks like it's already too late for 3D at the home but is there any chance you guys could please run a short story just to get the change.org link out there to more people please just so we can show LG whether it may be worth their while bringing it back for 2018?

    Thanks in advance!
     
  7. aido

    aido
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  8. boxrick

    boxrick
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    So here is a question, assuming from the dropping of 3D that HDR content looks significantly better and OLED pricing becomes more normal which would you have?
     
  9. aido

    aido
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    Personally I'd rather retain 3D given the choice as I've invested so much money in that and have much more 3D content than HDR content.

    Realistically this year they say the brightness levels have improved 25% in vivid mode - so that's going to be quite a bit less in reality.

    And we're talking maybe say 10% extra brightness for the specular highlights as that is all that is being improved so the very brightest bits will look slightly brighter - the majority of watching would still be around 120-200cdm for SDR viewing which for all intents and purposes will be the same on the new sets. If someone buys an OLED and leaves it on vivid they need their head checking.

    If you have a TV in isolation you'd never realise you were missing some of these highlights and on the other end of the scale people on here have already said that the top end LED sets such as the ZD9 can be too bright to look at when they're on full whack so a balance is needed.

    The TV industry seems to be moving with small incremental updates this year and I can only assume 3D was dropped to allow them to get the extra brightness for HDR.

    The reviews will come out eventually but it does make you think that they could have saved 3D on one model in the range and gone for improved tone mapping.

    The Pan scene is the only test we've seen so far and that in DV on the 2016 OLEDs looked the same as the HDR10 version on the higher end LED sets (albeit not as scorchingly bright).
     
  10. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    3D with glasses as it is now has failed in the home. Manufacturers aren't supporting it because it makes better business sense not to. A poll somewhere is not going to change that.
     
  11. aido

    aido
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    It's a shame that a lot of that is to do with the poor implementations of it that we've been fobbed off with over the years and that weren't

    Just a shame LG got it right then dropped it. Other companies

    At least we're trying - it is too late but at least we can say we tried to do something.

    It will be interesting to see how the figure grows as they're all people wanting to spend > £2k on a 3D OLED at some point. You only need to look through the forums seeing people complaining about the lack of 3D on the new range for that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  12. jwsg

    jwsg
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    I don't imagine anyone is sad to see the end of Active but owners do seem to rave about passive on OLED, and I'm not sure how much the polariser lowers brightness for the all important HDR that is the most important feature ever created.

    It's just that we as users now won't ever have the chance to try it (at least until after the Vinyl revival ends and we then have a 3D revival)

    From a business perspective it's your forum but it exists because of us, as does the entire AV business.
     
  13. arenaman

    arenaman
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    Active always used to be better, I remember baulking at how terrible the passive looked on the Sony models a few years back
     
  14. aido

    aido
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    It does suggest someone at LG was a massive fan of 3D because they spent the time and effort to perfect the technology used.

    There's potentially a very disappointed employee walking around South Korea!

    That's why I'm most surprised they just totally dropped it - maybe there's a simple explanation that will come out in the wash at some point like they set a target of 1000 nits and the only way they could do it in 2017 was to drop the filter.

    I've got to admit I'm looking forwards to seeing the pro reviews and user reviews hit as the new sets come out to see how they compare.

    The links have been put up a few times over on Blu-ray.com as well by various members over there so thanks guys
     
  15. garysevern

    garysevern
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    Love watching the occasional 3D blu-ray and would be sad to see it go. Also, the feeling that I've just bought a LG Oled65E6V because I need a 3D Tv and paid £1k more than a B6V for 3D and a better sound bar that m not going to use!
     
  16. Chrisrosevilla

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    @aido Well done! It's been a great response in just a couple of days.

    I've just written to the editor of home cinema choice magazine asking for a bit of publicity in the wider market. He published a letter from me about this subject, so I hope he'll be sympathetic.
     
  17. Captain Ron

    Captain Ron
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    Signed. Hoping to pick up an LG OLED55E6V sometime in the next six months. :)
     
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  18. aido

    aido
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    Brilliant stuff thanks - I've been posting the link up on various non-English forums and across quite a few FB pages and it's getting out there!

    None of the big sites have wanted to run anything yet but still a few pokers in various fires :)
     
  19. aido

    aido
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    You'll love it - they're a fantastic TV with the best 3D on the market :)
     
  20. drdocmatt

    drdocmatt
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    Also likely is all the extra code for HDR pushed the (large) 3D code set out of the ROM on the system, imho. Though adding a polarising filter would knock 50% off the peak light output, assuming a perfect filter.

    Active shutter glasses would have removed the need for a light-reducing filter.
     
  21. aido

    aido
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    If it was 50% the 2017 sets would have seen a similar increase in brightness - they're only quoting 25% and what with advances throughout the year it doesn't suggest the filter would cause 50%.

    The active glasses would more likely have the 50% loss due to the way they close to black for every frame and you'd also have potential for ghosting etc again then (like 3D done badly). The OLED passive 3D system was just so much better than anything else I've seen to date plus didn't cause headaches etc.
     
  22. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    I think the point he was making is that if you use shutter-glasses for 3D then there is no loss of brightness in 2D mode and no physical modifications are required to the panel; so, while 4K passive 3D may be the best solution for 3D viewing, using active shutter glasses instead means you can have 3D without any compromises in the 2D performance. Which might be more palatable to the manufacturers.
     
  23. aido

    aido
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    Right ok I'm with you now that makes more sense - it would just be a shame to go backwards to active after they've proven passive works so well.
     
  24. drdocmatt

    drdocmatt
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    Active is still better, but passive goggles are way way cheaper and the difference in performance is much smaller than it used to be. Both use polarisers, both are subject to ghosting.

    With passive 3D your head has to perfectly align with the screen's polarisers or you won't get the full blocking effect.

    Passive doesn't make backlights flicker when you look around the TV and are lighter and cheaper, but active also means you don't need twice as many pixels on your display to do full HD in 3D, it can do it with a single set of pixels.

    But as you say above the biggest advantage active shutter goggles produce is that when you aren't wearing them they have no effect on the display at all.

    I understand why active shutter goggles aren't popular and died out, but they are a technically superior solution in many ways.

    And actually yes the brightness differential between an unpolarised display and a polarised display (for passive 3D use) is 50%. But.. remember LCD displays are already polarised so they just have to arrange the default polarisation in adjacent columns of pixels correctly. OLED is not by default, so overall brightness is cut drastically when you slap a polarising filter in front of the emitters. Some OLED panels may actually be using circular polarisers internally, however, to cut down reflected light so this may indeed be moot. But physics says a polarising layer cuts 50% of the light. Ask any 3D plasma TV owner or photographer to show you..
     
  25. aido

    aido
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    Have you seen passive 3D on a 2016 OLED?

    What I don't understand is that if the polarizer layer cut back brightness by 50% then by default without any advances in the OLED technology made whatsoever they should have gained 50% brightness just by stripping off that layer from the 2017 panels and they aren't anywhere near that.

    And likewise the 2016 B6 should have been brighter than the rest of the sets which all had the layer but they all tested very similarly indeed across the entire range.

    Potentially they're keeping it in reserve maybe to ensure panel longevity?

    When I ran the Panasonic DX902 through a high speed camera you could see the active glasses weren't in sync properly with the TV alternating frames and it caused more ghosting than necessary plus the slower decays meant the TV physically couldn't swap backwards and forwards between frames fast enough which didn't help it's 3D either.

    I haven't tried the 3D on the Optoma projector I picked up last year but I'll have to pick up some of the Active 3D glasses for that as I have heard good stuff about that (just a shame you don't get the contrast or blacks of the OLED that way).
     
  26. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Well... when it comes to 3D viewing, active systems have their problems. First off, if each eye is receiving light from the TV only half the time, then you halve your subjective brightness in 3D mode, and that's before you take into account the additional light that is blocked out by the shutter glasses even when they're "open".

    Then you've got to ask, what's the response time of the panel? If it's still showing some of the left-eye image at the point when the right-eye shutter opens (or vice versa) that makes for extra cross-talk.

    Since all high-end displays are 4K res these days anyway, the fact that you need 4K to display 1080p 3D passively is a non-issue.

    And as far as aligning your head is concerned, that (AFAIK) is a problem associated with using linear polarisers (of the type used for IMAX 3D); if you're using circularly polarised light (as in RealD cinemas) it doesn't matter if you tilt your head to one side.

    And then you've got to take into account the bulk/weight of the active glasses, and the fact that they need batteries....
     
  27. drdocmatt

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    I have a Panasonic VT65 plasma with active shutter glasses. The plasma screen updates thousands of times a second, there is no need for the glasses to sync ridiculously accurately to clean frame boundaries as there's a large black frame window during which the glasses can switch. A bigger issue is panel dither on motion that causes blurring at low light levels but on the whole it's fine. It's not perfect, but nor are passive 3D displays. Choices, choices. I'd take either.

    As for the panel brightness, like I said there is some anecdotal evidence on the net that OLED displays are using circular polarisers as a anti-reflection technique to improve black levels in lit rooms. The amount of filtering is a trade off against output level. Presumably when they remove the full polariser filter (passive 3D filter) there is still a partial polarising effect from the panel anti reflective coatings. I don't know, just speculation on my part. Each manufacturer doesn't exactly publish these type of details..
     
  28. DJJez

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    no 3d on any 2017 tvs, 4k doesnt support 3d all the the studios are planning to ditch 3d yet you want 3d on future oleds???? why?!!! its a dying tech. it had its time but now its dying a slow death lol
     
  29. aido

    aido
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    Yes because when some of us have spent over £2000 on 3D Blu-rays that are still being released we would like to protect our investment!

    Disappointing responses from some folks on here!
     
  30. hamiltone

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    And some of us bought into Betamax, Minidisc, and Reel to Reel, but technology has to move on.

    Maybe start a petition to replace Colour TV with Black & White TV. :D
     

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