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Please recommend me an amp for these speakers

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Tempest, Oct 10, 2004.

  1. Tempest

    Tempest
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    1st off, please feel free to comment/critisize any of the things below.

    I currently have a Videologic Digitheatre DTS surround sound system which I drive via Coaxial digital from my PC sound card.

    Now, although this is good and a bargain for what it offers. I can't help but feel it could be better............

    (Firstly anyone care to comment on the above speaker system)

    I'm looking at getting these (they are in my price range, get excellent reviews and are the right size physically to fit where I want to put them)

    Mission Cinema M30 package:
    http://www.mission.co.uk/product/m30_cinema/loudspeakers_m30_cinema.htm

    The review here sounds very good: (right click and save target as)
    http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/outputpdf.php?file=EHC/037/083_EHC_037.pdf

    (Again, I would welcome any comments on them)

    To power them I would need an amp (obvious)
    But have no idea what I need (too much to choose from)

    I'd want coax digital in and enough power to power these speakers without killing the amp in the process and obviously, want it to sound good.
    Only other requirment is I'd like the amp to be black.

    I don't need AV inputs/outputs thru the amp. (dunno if you get a choice)

    So there you have it... I'm all ears for any comments you have.

    And I guess, also would like to know just how much better you think that new setup I'm looking at would sound compaired to the Digitheatre system I already have in place, as I'm gonna be well peed off if after spending £650 ish+ It's only fractionally better.

    My room is only 11ft x 11ft..........

    Many thanks for any help/advice
    even if it's don't bother and stick with what you have!
     
  2. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    Hi tempest,
    I was in a similar situation to you about 3 years ago so I can hopefully answer a few of your question:)
    I had the videologic dts system myself and it was a very good little system that gave very reasonable results for the money (much like you have found) and is a good introduction to surround sound beating many budget systems costing more money imo.
    With a budget of £650+ you could however replace it with something substanitially better. If you could let us know where your priorities lie as to music/movies (my system is used 60% music and 40% movies) and whether styling over performance has an effect on your purchase. If you could give us an idea of what you feel your current system lacks would be a help too. The person who purchased the videologic from myself added a couple of M71's from richers (as fronts) to improve stereo performance maybe this would be all you need? What dvd/cdp are you using to drive your current system and are you looking to replace it within your £650+ budget.Would you mind buying second hand as this would obviously make your money go a lot further and would give you a substatially better system if you were to buy all the components new. Most people look after their kit and you generally find most components are in as new condition any way and some real bargains can be had. Also how fixed is your £650+, I ask because if your looking to upgrade as you go you'll save money in the long run getting higher grade components initially than keep replacing a component every year or so for a better model (I learn't the hard way lol).
    Since your listening room is fairly small you'd be looking for a fairly compact solution much like the M30 package you have chosen. I upgraded to a Mission package myself from the videologic (M71 which the M30 has replaced iirc) and I went for a Yamaha ax620 av amp which gave me much better connectivity options and offered a marked improvement over it.
    Second hand you'd be possibly looking at a Denon 3802 (or similar mid ranged amp) which will do both movies and music better than a budget amp for the same money and possibly some B&W speakers.

    The only way to find your most suitable set up though is to go and have a listen at your local dealer. Initially it would give you an idea of the budget you would need to get the level of sound you require and to find the "sound" you prefer. One system isn't better than another just different and you need to find the components that give you the voicing you like best for the price your prepared to pay. :)
     
  3. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Manky thanks Hawklord for that excellent advice.

    To try and answer your questions (as you asked them)

    1: Where does my interest lie. Well, I guess 100% movies at the moment.
    I don't really listen to music much these days (only on the PC)
    I have got a proper Audio Amp, CD Player and MASSIVE speakers that are stuffed up in the loft as I have no place to put them

    Compaired to my MASSIVE speakers (well by normal todays standards) all the surround systems I've heard are pathetic.
    My speakers have 8" drivers, 4" midrange and 1" bullett tweaters, and can make the windows shake !!!!!!!

    So I kinda given up any what I would clall HIFI until I get space to bring them down from the loft again.

    However I'm always happy to be proven wrong.

    But anyway, currently my main use would be for Movies as I don't really listen to music any more.

    2: Styling. Well, BLACK = a must. Size size that mission M30 set was about as big as would look good in my room. The centre speaker can no be any taller than the one in the mission set. The surrounds would look wrong being any bigger, and the sub's about the right size, so will say the mission m30 are just about the idea (max) size. and ideal colour (black)

    3: The Videologic is renowned for having a poor center channel and I was well upset until I learned you had to turn centre up 2 notches more than the others so banalce it out.
    I guess I do like speakers to be a little on the crisp side, rather than boomy bass side. I like sharp clarity. That being said I do like a good kick in the pants when needed.
    But I don't want muddy dialogue being hidden by musical background soundtrack.

    The £650 is not fixed. Just you can get a LOT of systems for well below that.
    To be honest, that's too much really when I think about it.

    I'm NOT one thats impressed by talk of posh brand names, super expensive cable, gold plated spikes into the floor, painting green outlines around CD edges and all the junk that's taked about whilst people try and make theoretical arguments about how many strands of pure silver you should have in your £60 per metre speaker cable.
    When someone else is getting 99% the same sound from his system he wired up with 2.5mm twin and earth mains cable he bought for £10 per 100 yards!!!

    I did actually hear than copper main cable was pretty good, though I've never tried it.

    3: Regards listening. I've never had much luck.
    I need to be able to sit in a room and flick between my setup and the one I'm buying.
    Unless it's like a £50 hifi against a £10,000 hi fi type difference.

    Sorry if I'm not being very helpfull, but it's got to seem like wow this is much better to get rid of a £200 system for a £600+ system.

    The amp is my main confusion, as I'm not sure if even the cheapish ones do the BASICS pretty good.
    I guess I'm looking at 100w per channel kinda amp, which can manage this without killing itself. But do I really need 7 channel, all funny surround modes etc etc.

    4: What am I driving (or going to be driving it from)

    Well, my Video (to my projector) comes from the VGA Video out of a ATI Radeon X800 Pro graphics cards, running via powerstrip to give 1:1 pixel matching, running WinDVD at the moment.
    My sounds (to the amp) come via the coax digital out of my Creative SBLive 1024 sound card. hence why I much have coax digital in on the amp

    I did read these creative cards give an overspec voltage down the coax digital out. and some amps may not like that. Not sure if this means anything to you.

    Sorry of that all sounded a bit of a rant at times. I'll leave my posting here and see what thoughts you've had about my points above
    Cheers
     
  4. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    If your looking for a system purely for movies then I'm sure that the M30's will fit the bill nicely. If you go for a subsat system with smaller speakers I doubt you'll get too much of an improvement over the videologic tbh. The videologic system does a fine job with movies imo and the subwoofer is quite a hefty beast and fills in the lower frequencies nicely.
    The M30 speakers coupled with a budget av receiver would be a marked step up from the videologic imo but only you can really judge whether it's worth the extra outlay. Budget av receivers generally do a very competent job with movies it's music that is usually their failing but since that's not important then you should be ok. I'd recomend anything by Yamaha as they tend to be the budget kings as far as av recievers are concerned but are limited with music. Marantz are pretty good too in the price range you speaking about and are meant to be more musical. You may even be able to get a lower end denon receiver or a second hand avr3802 (like mine) if you don't mind second hand.
    The M30 looks a good little speaker package for the money but my only critisism would be the centre speaker. I had that centre with my M71 package (it's now my rear centre) and it's fairly limited but an improvement over the videologics centre. If you were to buy the M30 fronts for £75 (http://www.qed-uk.com/q/index.html?i=11ql7f2l0GW0&vp=6&bg=216&bp=m30s&bi=0), the m3c2 for £125 (http://www.qed-uk.com/q/index.html?i=11ql7f2l0GW0&vp=6&bg=216&bp=m3c26&bi=0) and rears for £125 (http://www.qed-uk.com/q/index.html?i=11ql7f2l0GW0&vp=6&bg=216&bp=m3dsb&bi=0) initially over the total package. This would give you a better centre (very important for dialog and front panning) and give you better rear effects performance with the bipolar speakers which are less directional. Obviously this set up wouldn't have a subwoofer but you could add a better one than the one provided in the m30 package later. Imo something like the ms309 (http://www.richersounds.com/index.php?f=itemdetl.php&p=302042) would give you better lower end grunt than the one provided. Lfe is essential to get the full impact of movies and it's best to get one that will be up to the job. Cheaper subwoofers tend to give very loose distorted bass which may rattle your windows but nothing more :thumbsdow .

    anyway I hope that's given you something to think about.

    good hunting :thumbsup:
     
  5. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    Have you arranged a demo anywhere yet?
     
  6. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    surrey eh plenty of top end dealers round that neck of the woods.....
     
  7. Tempest

    Tempest
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    No yet no.........

    I'm not THAT desperate really.
    I'd just like to get something better. Your comments about the misson center dissapointed me slighty. Not quite sure what you were saying, but the centre (which carries all the dialogue etc) is an important issue, and one of the weaker points of the videologic, so unsure now....

    The size of the M30 center is really as big as I can go (height wise) anyway for my setup. I'm quite restricted in space below the screen.
     
  8. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Tempet more money but consider Cantons CD2.22 system great set-up but over budget....
     
  9. CosmicOne

    CosmicOne
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    If u want very crisp & sharp sounds in movies then u really should go with a Yamaha amp/Recivier coz they are the best in giving Crisp & sharp sounds,unless the speakers u are getting are also bright then puting it with the Yamaha would be pain for ur ears,so if the Missions are Flat/worm then go with the yammy for the sound u want.
     
  10. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Thanks for the info.
    Would the same go for a amp rather than a reciever ?
    It all seems a bitof a gamble unless someone is selling you a known and proven combination of components.
    This is why I'd go for a speaker package, as at least I know someone who knows something has actually chosen the items to go together.
    I could buy different speakers and they could all clash terribly !!!
     
  11. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Thats why you need to demo mate....
     
  12. Hawklord

    Hawklord
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    Half the fun is listening to different combinations to find the one that's for you. The mission centre is OK and better than the Videologics but you can get better. If you think the Videologic suits all your needs then don't feel the need to upgrade for the sake of it.
    Upgraditis can be a very expensive affliction (as I have found) so be careful what you wish for;)
     
  13. CosmicOne

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    Yes "Tempest" this goes for any Yamaha Amp or Reciver.
     

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