Please Help! REL Q400E & Denon Amp

[Rick1486]

A plea for your expert help gang!

After much hand wringing I've got hold of a one year(ish) old Q400E in walnut - immaculate - and on sale or return!

So our system (it is half SWMBO's after all!) as it stands now is;

MISSION 782SE Fronts
MISSION 78CSE Centre
MISSION 78DS Surrounds
REL Q400E Subwoofer
DENON 2105 Amplifier
DENON 2910 DVD Player

The trouble is I'm a complete newbie and have absolutely no idea ref. setting up the subwoofer to complement our system. I've read the manual and re-read it and I'm still scratching my head.

I've connected the sub to the amp using a phono lead connected to the amps' sub out connector- easy enough.

What confuses me is the neutrik(?) connector - do I have to connect that as well or is it not necessary? Indeed, can I connect that as well into my amp?

This phase and crossover thing confuses me too - is there an optimum configuration anyone can recommend? And what about the volume - should I need to put it up to halfway or more - especially as this sub is 400w (or is that irrelevant?)

Regarding room placement we are a bit limited i.e. there is a corner between the settee on the window wall and the settee on the long wall (living room approx. 15ft x 13ft x 7'6" high non open plan) - I know the manual says the sub should face the listeners position but I've also read that the bass can be increased by pointing it towards a wall.

On a similar note I notice that the phono type connection has two options, one marked 0db and the other marked 12db - the guy in the shop said that one is louder than the other - again is there a preferred connector by you boys or does it not matter which one is used?

I'm sorry I've got so many questions and I'm sure someone will be rolling their eyes but I really do need your help and I really do appreciate your constructive advice.

Hope you can help and I'm sure that I'll have more questions so brace yourselves lol.

Cheers
Rick

 

[Ian J]

Don't bother with the hi level Neutrik connector at the moment so just connect with a single phono lead from the sub out socket on the Denon to the input on the sub for the 0db signal.

Set the gain on the sub between one third and one half and the phase to zero. If there is a mode switch on the sub set it to whichever setting is LFE only and if there is a frequency control switch either set it as high as possible or off if there is an off switch

In the amp's sub management menu you want to set the speakers to small and the crossover to 80Hz and set the speaker & sub levels using the test tones and an SPL meter if possible.

That should give you a reasonable starting off position from where you can tweak the settings to get the optimum position.

If you get really stuck have a word with russraff who used to have the same model sub.

 

[Rick1486]

Thanks IanJ for that - RUSSRAFF where are you lol!

A question for you re. setting all speakers to "small", I had a conversation regarding this last week with Overture and I was told that the 782se's should be left as "large", what is the reasoning/benefit of setting all speakers to small? I don't have an SPL meter though and if I did I really wouldn't have a clue what to do with it lol!
With regards to setting gain do you mean the subwoofer volume?

 

[Ian J]

The reason that many of us set the speakers to small is that we feel that the sub can handle the under 80Hz stuff better than the main speakers can. Speaker manufacturers tend to be a bit fanciful at times when quoting the frequency range that their speakers can achieve and they often cannot get down as low as the brochure says.

Setting the speakers as small also puts less strain on the amp but it is only a starting off point as you may prefer the sound with them set as large - there is no right or wrong in these situations.

The sub gain is the volume control on the sub itself.

The idea of using an SPL meter for setting the speeaker levels is that it is much more accurate than the human ear and many people find that having set the levels by ear they are actually miles out. The art of subwoofer installation isn't only to get the biggest, baddest bass from the sub but also to integrate it with the other speakers so that you can't hear the bass as a seperate entity. Many people have it set too loud but if you have to set it by ear, increase the sub volume in the amp's bass management until you can just hear the bass and then it will be too loud so turn it down a touch, then a touch more.

It can take a few days to get it just right.

 

[russraff]

It took me nearly a week to fine tune my Q400. The way I had mine set up was to have the fronts set to large, with the Neutrik connector plugged in and the phono on the 0db socket (the other is 12db louder, so I avoided that!). It is easier to set up the sub with all speakers set to small, however, so you should do that, leave it for a couple of days so you get uesed to the sound, then change the fronts to large, with the Neutrik conector and see which you prefer.
So, do as Ian said regarding the phono input crossovers etc, leaving the Neutrik connector out. The volume is very sensitive, 1/4 of the way round producing very strong bass, so start there, rather than half way round. Set the sub to the first mode setting labled "LFE", this will let your reciever do all the bass filtering. Do not have the REL in a corner, and certainly not firing into one. I really don't understand REL's addiction to putting subs in corners - it nearly always makes them sound boomy.

Anyway, got to go to work, so I will post more later on if needed.

Russell

 

[Rick1486]

More needed Russell more lol - keep the good advice rolling in!

Cheers
Rick

 

[russraff]

The only other advice I could give, without specific questions, are general ones that have been asked on these forums and ones that you probably already know: Use a music track, rather than a movie one, to test how well the sub is integrating into your sustem; If your amp has variable crossovers, try a lower setting than 80Hz (60Hz, perhaps, but 40 would be too low); Positioning is everything with subs, so try moving it around to help counter any room boom or bass peaks/troughs; RELs are designed with the Neutrik connection in mind, and all the REL's that I have had sound better with both connections working in tandem with each other.
Basically, though, just experiment and see what sounds best to you. As you tweak amp bass management settings, or adjust phase and volume on the sub (try to get someone else to do this while you sit in the listening position) you will become more au fait with them. In this way you will be more setted in that you will have chosen just the right settings.

Russell

 

[Rick1486]

Cheers Russell, one other thing, I did connect the high level input as per the instructions but when I turned the amp off the sub was producing a constant hum/buzz. Any ideas as to why?

Rick