Please Help! Really weird problem with my AE100 and Limit DVD player

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Argento, Jan 15, 2003.

  1. Argento

    Argento
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    Last night I took the plunge and replaced my old Pionner 525 with the Limit DVD player that everyones been talking about - At last I was goning to get prog scan with my AE100.

    Rigged it up with 3 x mission phono leads (£50 from Richer) into the component input on my AE100, and put in the hacks to make it all multi region - then switched it into progressive mode. On NTSC progressive it looks fantasic, but only on pal progessive you can see diagonol bands, seeming to go throughout the picture. You can't see them in "light" scenes, but on a darker screen, or the blue start-up screen they are very clearly visable.

    Like I say - region 1 software is steady as a rock - but as soon as you swap over to region 2, bands of lines moving diagonally left to right......


    I'm starting to feel like i've bought a donkey!!


    One more thing - if I connect via the video in socket on my AE100, the image is stabe in both regions - but this is not a progessive signal.

    Any ideas would be most welcome.


    Rich
     
  2. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    You are in good company. I've swapped messages with a few Denon 3800 owners who have EXACTLY the same problem with the AE100.

    The diagonal lines vary according to the PAL material, and are less obvious on moving scenes, they really show up on static menus. NO matter what adjustment I made I could not get rid of it.

    NTSC material is perfect however.

    I haven't found an explanation for this anywhere, but it led to me looking for another projector.

    Regards,
    Ian Guinan
     
  3. Underscore

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    Does the AE100 support PAL progressive - it could be that you are feeding it a signal that it can't handle properly.

    Just a thought,

    _
     
  4. hermand

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    (1) AE100 does support Pal prog.

    (2) Using PAL prog from the Limit I haven't noticed this problem.

    Don't know if that helps, but its what I know

    Cheers

    Herman
     
  5. Argento

    Argento
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    This is really weird - so one of you had this problem, never solved it, and it made him move onto a new projector.

    Someone else has never seen this problem.

    Whats going on here folks, do you think I should change to another player - either get another limit, perhaps go for the Philips player....

    What do you think?

    Thanks for all the help!

    Rich
     
  6. dejongj

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    I maybe totally wrong here, but although the AE100 states it supports PAL PS (525p) isn't the actually resolution of the LCD panel less and thus the projector is scaling the image down?

    Maybe that is causing the problem.

    Cheers,

    Jean-paul
     
  7. magking

    magking
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    dejongj
    No thats not the problem.
    I borrowed a Denon DVD2800 with PAL-P before i bought the DVD3800. I did not have diagonal lines with the 2800, but i have with my 3800.
    I use a component to RGBhv converter to solve the problem.

    It's a compability issue, and has been claimed to be resolved by a service on the 3800 by another member here, don't remember who.
     
  8. Argento

    Argento
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    Good news folks - i've solved the problem.

    I was thinking that the projector/dvd was ok when it played NTSC discs, but not when it played pal.

    So, I changed the dvd's output from "Auto" (which swaps between pal and ntsc) to "Ntsc" mode - and it works!

    All discs play fine now!

    Thanks for your help - not sure why this works, but it does!



    Rich
     
  9. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    It works because you are no longer outputting PAL progressive, but are converting your PAL disks to less resolution at 480p. You may well notice more artifacts on PAL disks depending on how good the Limit is at the PAL -> NTSC conversion.

    Ian Guinan
     
  10. Argento

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    Well, the projector and the player both claim that the resolution is the same in this mode as the "Auto" mode - haven't I just selected what tv source i'm viewing on?

    So, to clarrify - ntsc discs - still great - no change.
    Pal discs - do look a hell of a lot better and both the projector and dvd player both say "525p"



    Rich
     
  11. dejongj

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    Hey Hold on guys....I just took a look at the Panasonic website where it states the following....

    <QUOTE><B>
    YPBPR signals
    525i (480i), 625 i, 525p (480p), 750p(720p), 1125i(1080i) </B></QOUTE>

    I can only see 625i and not 625p, that means that PAL PS is not supported. Sorry to break the news Argento but when the machine says it is running in 525P that actually means NTSC progressive scan. 525P is 480P just like for PAL 625P is 576P. I know it doesn't makes sense but that is the facts.

    So the AE100 can only do PAL interlaced at 625I.....

    Probably not what you wanted to hear. Anyway you like the picture that you have got so enjoy it, but it is not PAL PS, it is NTSC and the Limit is downconverting the output.

    Now a lot of people have said that they actually prefer the PAL interlaced from the Limit, no me personally, but you may want to give that a try....

    Cheers,

    Jean-Paul
     
  12. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    Sorry, I don't agree on two counts;

    1) setting the output mode on a DVD player determines which video format the player will try and output. On most players PAL makes it put out PAL regardless of the disk format, NTSC puts out NTSC regardless of the original disk format, and AUto recognises the format of the disk and puts out the corresponding format. The reason for this function is that some diplays will not do NTSC or PAL. In order to covert from one signal to another however quite often the decoding chip will introduce artifacts, or reduce resolution (in the case of PAL to NTSC).

    2) The AE100 WILL show PAL progressive despite what it says in the menu. Many happy users on here will testify to the fact that they are watching their AE100 with other PAL progressive capable players (eg. the various Philips models, the Denon 2800, maybe even a few Arcams).

    I've used an AE100 with different DVD players and switched between PAL progressive and NTSC progressive. The Panasonic has always accurately shown which format the player was outputting.

    However, if you are getting a good picture leaving it at 480p then great. If your player is set to NTSC and your projector is saying it is getting 525p then I would be suspicious something is wrong.

    Regards,
    Ian Guinan
     
  13. dejongj

    dejongj
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    Ian,

    But...525p is NTSC!!!! So nothing is wrong....NTSC is being output as NTSC by the Limit and received by the AE100 as NTSC. It works exactly as it is supposed to work.

    Cheers,

    Jean-Paul
     
  14. Jan_Assembler

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  15. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    Sorry Jean-Paul, my mistake..I'm getting my terminology in a twist.

    525p is indeed NTSC progressive (480 is the actual no. of lines shown), 625p is what the Ae100 will show if being fed PAL progressive.

    The Limit is converting all to NTSC progressive...not the route to best quality in my opinion.

    Ian Guinan
     
  16. dejongj

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    I agree that convertion is not the route to best quality. I have tried it both ways NTSC upconvert to PAL and PAL down convert to NTSC. It works but I prefer to watch PAL as PAL and NTSC as NTSC. I just leave it to auto.

    So you are saying that the AE100 displays 625p when fed PAL progressive. Does that mean the Panasonic website is wrong as they only state it can do 625i.

    Cheers,

    JP
     
  17. norbert

    norbert
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    Hello all.

    First post so please excuse any mistakes!

    I have the AE100 and also had the Limit 9900SE (it went back yesterday). I can confirm that the AE100 definitely showed a 625p signal (this showed in one of the Panny's menus).

    For what it's worth - I thought the progressive picture was much improved over the interlaced picture from the Limit and also from that of my current player (Pioneer 535). It went back because of the vibrations (there's another thread about this somewhere so it seems fairly common).

    As an aside - my AE100 is also broken but then who's isn't?!?

    Regards

    Richard
     
  18. dejongj

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    Good first post, welcome!

    Well it looks like the Panny site is wrong! I am sorry to hear that all you kit is faulty at the moment. Hope it gets all sorted out.

    Regards,

    Jean-Paul
     
  19. norbert

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    Jean-Paul

    Thanks for your reply. MY AE100 went back because of the colour uniformity problems which seem to be par for the course. Panasonic have promised a new model but it appears to have been lost en-route (or at least - so they say). Thankfully, I've had a loan model from them for about 3 months but that now has the same problem!

    I must admit that I hadn't checked the Panasonic manual specifically - I had just assumed it would accept a 625P picture. Guess I was lucky - that could have been a costly mistake!

    Regards

    Richard
     

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