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please help... info on DLP Vertical Viewing Angle

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by digitize, Feb 14, 2005.

  1. digitize

    digitize
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    Please help... I'd like to ask anyone who can supply the viewing angle spec of the various DLP sets available. I've already decided to buy a Rear-Pro DLP tv, but I want to buy one with a good viewing angle, particularly vertical - this is quite important to me.

    Do anyone know about the (vertical) viewing angle of these sets?

    Toshiba - 46WM48P / 52WM48P
    Sagem Axium - D50 / HD-D45
    Themescene (or Optoma) - RD50 / RD65
    Samsung - SP50L7HX
    LG - RE44SZ21RD

    I know the vertical viewing angle of DLPs is not very good, but I don't want to buy plasma because of 'image burn'.

    Any advise re viewing angle will also be appreciated...

    Thanks.
     
  2. Chorlton Dragon

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    I don't know the exact figure, but the vertical viewing angle of the Sagem HD-D45 is quite limited. At 10 feet away (where I sit) there's noticeable dimming no more than two feet either side of the vertical centre.

    The horizontal viewing angle is pretty good at 140 degrees. Does anyone know why it's so limited vertically ?

    CTD
     
  3. digitize

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    That's HD-D45 off my list now then.

    What about the Sagem 50? The manual says vertical angle is 20... Can the owners confirm this, or better yet, please contribute your actual experience with regards to the viewing angle, i.e. how is the view say 8 feet from the screen while you're standing.
     
  4. schnipps

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    I think if this is massively important to you then dont go dlp because i was under the impression they all dim vertically, my tosh certainly does. Thats the nature of the technology. Can i ask why its so important?
     
  5. LV426

    LV426
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    Limited viewing angle in the vertical plane (i.e. if you are higher or lower than the centre) is fairly common of all RPTV types - it isn't a DLP issue, it's a RP issue, brought about by the nature of the screen. To some exent, brightness also falls off, off-axis, horizontally, although to lesser degree than vertically in most cases.

    You've already dismissed Plasma (for what may well be a valid reason) and you can't get direct view CRT at this type of size (they have the same issue that precludes Plasma anyway).

    Which really only leaves you with a Sharp 45 inch LCD at present, as a sure way of having a good viewing angle in every direction and no riosk whatsoever of screen image burn-in. There may well be other large direct view LCDs waiting to launch.
     
  6. digitize

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    If it warrants, I'll get an LCD instead... I think it's fair to conclude then that it's quite difficult to get a good vertical viewing angle on RP tvs... (although i thought i read somewhere that viewing angle should be better for DLPs compared to CRT rpTVs... )

    But I was thinking about the Sagem 50 as the manual says vertical angle is 20 degrees. I think this is hard to believe but I'm waiting for a Sagem 50 owner to voice his/her actual experience about this.

    Oh yes, the reason why vertical viewing angle is important to me, is because I will be using the TV for karaoke - where people will stand in front of the TV to watch and sing...

    so there... Thank you so much to those who contribute to this thread...
     
  7. digitize

    digitize
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    Lion, this is a good idea, - but I also would like to enjoy the TV cinematically, when watching DVDs, watching TV, etc. - not to mention my kids will also want to use it to play games...

    Do you think this will work? Maybe as a compromise?

    Any more suggestions please... I still would consider a DLP, if and only if I can do something to remedy the vertical viewing deficiency...

    Thanks again to those who contribute...
     
  8. St_ve

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    Why don't you go and demo the DLP's in Comet & take a footstool with you.
    For Karoke a DLP should be fine you only get a dimming of the set it's still quite watchable standing at arms length from the set as you move away it gradually gets brighter it doesn't suddenly change.
    I have the Optoma RD50 i assume the other makes would be the same as mine?
     
  9. digitize

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    Steve, I have read the review of the Optoma RD50 - the review says it has a good angle viewing, compared to the other DLPs...

    The only thing that is discouraging me from buying Optoma is its non-NTSC compatibility.

    The Karaoke feed will be NTSC 3.58 component. One of my tube TVs at home is non-NTSC. If I input an NTSC signal, it appears as Black&White, so I have to use a PAL booster to make it coloured...

    Will I have the same problem with the Optoma? Will I be able to solve it using the same PAL booster? Or are there any other means to solve?... As I said, the Karaoke signal will be NTSC component.

    p.s. I'm still waiting for any Sagem 50 owner to contribute their comments. How's vertical angle for this set?.. Please...
     
  10. St_ve

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    You would have to use a PC for NTSC on the RD50 if you have a top end DVD player i sugest you try one of the other makes if not a HTPC has excellent DVD playback.
    I doubt if a Pal booster would work.
     
  11. digitize

    digitize
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    Steve, the Karaoke NTSC is component (the red, yellow, & white connectors) - are you saying that it will be possible to route this to TV via a PC?... If you feed the Optoma with the NTSC, are there no video signals at all in the screen?... If there is a signal, then I think the PAL Booster should work, otherwise I think there is another more advanced, more expensive form of signal converter (PAL-to-NTSC) that I can use.

    Calling all Sagem D50 owners... Please comment on the vertical viewing of your set. Thanks.
     
  12. St_ve

    St_ve
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    You would have to check that your motherboard or soundcard has component in.
    I only know about region one DVD's (NTSC) they play fine using windows media player powerdvd6 or windvd6 or Theatertek . It might be software dependant.
    I think you would have to use a PC software player for it to work, it would be too much of a gamble unless you could demo it with the gear you intend to use it with
     
  13. LV426

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    digitize: That colour set of cables is unlikely to be component. More likely

    red = audio right
    white = audio left
    yellow = composite video. (Just fyi).

    The issue with the Optoma as I understand it, is that it reproduces NTSC (or more accurately, 525 lines, 60hz) very jerkily. Not that it won't handle this signal at all, and not that it does it in B&W. Your colour corrector thingy will not help at all.

    NTSC > PAL Converters come in two fundamental types:

    a) convert the colour element of the signal only, leaving the 525 lines, 60hz structure intact. These are fairly cheap. It's what you call a "PAL booster". This wuill NOT solve the Optoma issue as the issue isn't with the colour carrier - it's with the 60hz field frequency.

    b) convert NTSC - 525 lines - 60hz fully to PAL - 625 lines - 50hz. These start at about GBP300 and at this price do a fairly poor job, degrading the signal quite significantly. They also introduce jerkiness. So no help there. And they go up to full broadcast standard at somewhere around GBP30k.

    The third option is a DVD player that fully converts NTSC (disc) to PAL - 625 - 50 output. Some do, some don't, and it isn't always clear from specs and boxes which these are. Many make no distinction between Pseudo Pal/aka PAL60 (which is what your "PAL booster" does) and true PAL-625-50. In any case, those that can do the full conversion, typically do it fairly poorly, with notable jerkiness.

    All of which is a long way round of saying - select a TV (whatever type) that CAN handle NTSC (or at least PAL-525-60 aka PseudoPAL aka PAL60) properly.
     
  14. hornydragon

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    Panny are the best (plasma) re latent image retention and worth another look if you need a wide viewing angle
     
  15. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    thats composite mate red, green blue for component
     
  16. St_ve

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    LV426 a pc software dvd player does an excellent job of converting NTSC to PAL for the RD50. I see no difference in quality between R1 or R2 both are excellent.
    However i don't know if it would work for Digitize i guess if windows media player could play his Karoke it would be ok but should get a demo.
     
  17. LV426

    LV426
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    St_ve: I have no doubt you are right on that. Not everybody, however, has the technical knowhow AND the willing partner, that are necessary to place an HTPC in the living room. It may be a valid solution for digitize; that I don't know. However, using a TV that can handle NTSC (or Pal60) would seem to be more sensible, IMO. I seriously doubt that the Optoma is that good on PAL to make forfeiting true NTSC playback a valid thing to do. If it is, it must be a bloody good TV.
     
  18. St_ve

    St_ve
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    I have to agree that a HTPC is not for everyone just yet but they are a lot more user friendly than they used to be it i expect they will get to the stage where Granny can use one in about two years.
     
  19. digitize

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    Bloody good TV - it may well be, the RD50 is...

    I was wondering how come the RD50 has a good off-axis viewing, compared to other DLPs, and even if it is a Rear-Projection TV. Even the magazine review I read states this is true...

    What is the secret to this? May be due to this, it could be forgiven for its NTSC and R1 deficiencies...

    Are there any explanations to this? Is the Sagem 50 the same?

    With regards to HTPC, I think further knowledge is required before the consumer can even consider it...
     
  20. ManGina

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    digitize
    I have the Tosh 52. Yes the picture dims slightly but I stress only slightly. This only becomes an issue when up close. This tv is over 130cm high anyway and if you stand no closer than 9 or 10 feet away it should have very little or no impact on your enjoyment on your..ahem..chosen pastime :blush: and will be ideal when seated (I am 6'2" tall).
    The thing to remember is most people here are perfectionists and are commenting on the slightest issues (and rightly so) but this sometimes can get lost in translation so to speak. I am blown away by this set and would watch it from standing if I had to :D
     
  21. St_ve

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    If there is a difference? it would have to be due to the screen
    HTML:
    Non-reflective, fine grade, 0.15 mm screen-pitch display
    Some makes might have more layers than others & be thicker ?
     
  22. digitize

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    Interesting comments from ManGina, but would you know what the vertical angle of 52 is? is anything quoted?

    What is the height of the Tosh52 stand? What is the height from floor to the screen?... In your opinion, what is the optimum viewing distance?... Please let me know.

    I'm keeping my options open. The contributions here I know will be helpful (and not confusing) in the end... If necessary, I'll have to find a way to have a taller stand...
     
  23. digitize

    digitize
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    I am still eagerly awaiting for a Sagem 50 owner to comment about the vertical viewing capability of their set. As I said, the manual states it is 20 degrees, which by my trigonometric calculations would be good enough for my requirements - especially as the Sagem 50 does offer a tall glass stand (30.5 inch floor to screen)... But I would appreciate comments based on owners' personal experiences, more than the manual & calculations...
     
  24. digitize

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  25. St_ve

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    Why can't you pop down to comet & check out the Sagem 50 viewing angles for your self ?
     
  26. digitize

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    I have been to Comet a couple of times. However, their sets are positioned very high so it is difficult to simulate an actual scenario... I might pop up there with a foot stool, as suggested... but I'd still appreciate comments from Sagem 50 owners... actually, I'm desperate - I think they are quite a bunch of class... and satisfied owners?
     
  27. Razor

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    Well said LV426. The problem in a nut shell. Although I still havent come across a dvd player that converts NTSC to a true Pal50. A few people had success with the panasonic 75 and others havent so I have discounted this player. In fact I have discounted all dvd players for this purpose and are now using my pc with powerstrip to solve my problems. It doesnt eliminate the problem totally but it does help a hell of a lot. It also has the benifit of HDTV playback, which is awesome.

    On the subject of viewing angles:

    The new infocus driven thompson 61' and 50' thin dlp tv sets are ment to be very bad with viewing angles and if your not sat directly in front of the set the picture suffers greatlly. They say its the design of the thin tv case which are bringing these problems to the table. The set is only 18cm deep for both models, which is very impressive but not so if it ruins the picture. A big, big shame. :(
     
  28. digitize

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    Thanks Razor.

    What I need to know is if there is any Rear-Pro DLP out there, that is NTSC-capable, and has a good vertical viewing angle (i am not concerned with HDCP at all, DVI & progressive will suffice).

    Maybe Sagem 50?
     
  29. Razor

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    Sagem is probably your best bet. Although I wouldn't be dismisive of HDCP as the sky High def service (avialible in beginning 2006) will only work if you have a HDCP compatible set.
    Also future and present dvd players namely blue ray and hd dvd will have the HDCP system in place via the DVI/HDMI input. To my knowledge Denons flagship the 3910 wont work unless your set is HDCP compatible over DVI/HDMI connection. You can only use the component connection, which is second best.

    The best connection on these DLP set's is the DVI/HDMI, the picture quality difference is large as this input has no conversion process and is just raw digital data.

    Also consider the 50' samsung which has recieved alot of praise, no reported problems with 60hz. Its also the nicest looking set around.

    Why do you say that you are not bothered about HDCP?
     
  30. digitize

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    Razor, HDCP doesn't bother me because I'm like the majority of the cosumer public - I'm not bothered by it at all... Like over 90% of the British market, Hi-Def is just not a major factor in my planned purchase decision...

    I do hope you have had adequate testing/experience with the Sagem 50 - to suggest that it is the best bet for me... Do you reckon that the 20 degrees vertical angle is actually true?

    And oh yes, the Samsung 50 is nice, but no space provision for other gadgets, i.e. no stand to keep your dvd player, etc...

    Many thanks.
     

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