1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Please Help i have a Problem with NTSC images [Panasonic owners ]

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by snubnose33, Jun 23, 2001.

Tags:
  1. snubnose33

    snubnose33
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    43
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi all i have been experiencing some problems when viewing an NTSC sourced picture-mainly when viewing Region 1 or Region 3 discs.
    My set up is as follows:
    Tv-Panasonic TX28-Pg45
    Dvd-Toshiba Sd 210 E

    The problem is that whenever i watch an ntsc disc i get this concave shaped cuves at the side of the screen.
    ITs hard to explain but i get a ccurving inwards and the body of the picture is contained within those curves,this only happens with Ntsc discs. Pal images whether Vhs or Dvd play fine without the inward curving.
    below is a model of what happens[albeit a poor one]

    .\......./.
    . Ntsc .
    . picture .
    ./.......\.

    ..........
    . Pal .
    . picture.
    ..........


    My dvd player is set to Auto mode so it may recognize the source pal or Ntsc and its connected to my tele through an RgB scart.
    What on Earth could the problem be?
    is this something happens with all panny's?
    or doi have to learn to live with this?
    :(

    or do i have a dud tele?

    :eek:

    i would be very greatfull if anyone can shed some light on this.
     
  2. avelagapudi

    avelagapudi
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have the 32 PG50 and I have not noticed any problems with NTSC material.
    It might be worth going into the setup menu to see if that can help.
     
  3. Nick Drew

    Nick Drew
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sorry to hear that you are experiencing the dreaded NTSC moire patterning problem. Also known as 'fanning on NTSC'. This problem is common on all the PG series TV's and also the Australian equivalent. Panasonic are investigating apparently. Currently there is no cure as far as I know. There are many posts on this board. One guy has had a Panasonic senior engineer out and he could not cure it either. I have a 36PG50 and although sometimes it is not visible once you realise it is there it drives you nuts. But my partner has not noticed it! If you can't live with it get a refund because another of the same probably won't be any better. Shame
     
  4. Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    A friend of mine is a engineer at panasonic and i mentioned this to him this mornining. As mentioned in the last post, its a know problem with no fix at this time... i agree, a refund in probably best option if its driving you nuts..

    Kev
     
  5. Grubert

    Grubert
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2001
    Messages:
    601
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +72
    Yes, I have the same problem on my 4:3, 29-inch, 1999-year Panasonic. I didn't need anyone to point it to me; I saw it the moment I played my first R1 DVD, but I thought I was being paranoid. Don't Philips or Sony sets suffer from this NTSC moire thing?
     
  6. snubnose33

    snubnose33
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    43
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hey Thanks for the responces guys i really appreciate it.
    Unfortunately i havent got any good news to report as my situation is still the same :(

    Nick - you speak wise words you are so so right, once noticed this concave "fanning cum moire" effect is absolutely unbearable.

    Last night i sat down with a a mixed bag of R1 dvds to see if i could watch them without noticing this. But to no avail every R1 dvd i tried was unwatchable as all i could see is the black concave shapes along the sides of the screen [despite them being miniminal]
    Films shot in 1-2:35 aspect ratio are the worst offenders. Take Lawrence of Arabia as an example, the scenes shot in the desert were absolute murder on the eyes :(

    I was hoping for a replacement of the same model- as it is a lovely little tv that suited my needs down to a T. But seeing as 2 of you have testified to this being a recurring problem on the Pg series i shall stay well clear.

    As i bid farewell to my panasonic Tx28Pg 45 the question that remains is :

    " what do i replace it with ? "

    Any ideas folks?
    Im thinking of heading down the 32 inch route

    How does the Panasonic tx-32Pk25 look?
    Pro's + cons?

    isnt this one essentially a rewrap of the Pk20 ?
     
  7. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,789
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +4,975
    I'm not sure where the connection with moire patterns and distorted edges comes from - but then I'm not a Panasonic TV owner. However, it sounds like snubnose is describing a geometry problem. I have exactly the same problem with 4:3 NTSC signals on my JVC 24" widescreen set. Fortunately, I only use it for TV programmes. For films I use my VPL-VW10HT (which, being an LCD device, has perfect geometry).

    All CRT-based TVs (the vast majority) suffer, to a greater or lesser degree, to geometry errors. These may show as curved lines or edges (that should be straight), uneven scrolling of eg film titles, and uneven lateral movement.

    They are notoriously difficult to correct, even with a Service Menu and hours of patience.

    It's an unfortunate symptom of things being built down to a price rather than up to a standard. What makes it more frustrating is that most of the same manufacturers can produce a PC monitor, for a similar amount of money, with almost perfect geometry, and a wealth of user adjustments.

    You can try another TV. Take a tape or DVD with some test signals on it into the shop and don't leave until you've found a set without problems. You need to look closely at vertical and horizontal straight lines, circles, and diagional straight lines.

    Or, you could go the (more expensive) LCD or Plasma route. Neither of these technologies will suffer from Geometry problems (or, indeed convergence errors).
     
  8. snubnose33

    snubnose33
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    43
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Ratings:
    +0

    thanks for the informative reply Lvs but budget inhibits me from walking that way.
    So are you saying all Crt teles suffer from a geometry problems?
    or is it mainly the newer models?
     
  9. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,789
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +4,975
    It's a fundamental difficulty with trying to create a flattish picture on a flattish screen by scanning a beam from a single point (at the back of the CRT). The beam naturally wants to go faster at the edges than at the centre (because it's point of origin is further away), which would stretch the image at the edges and/or compress in the middle.

    So lots of electronics have to be added to even the scan speed out and make the image more linear. And these electronics are made as cheaply as possible, and are set up on the production line as quickly as possible. Hence they are rarely right.

    It's been true of CRTs for ever. It's just that, when you watch a 4:3 image on a 16:9 set, you can clearly see any distortion of the edges, whereas, with a 4:3 image on a 4:3 set, the distortion (if present) will be off the edges of the tube and not visible, unless there happens to be a straight line near to the edge of the picture.

    AND - the electronics probably need different settings for the different scan and refresh rate of an NTSC picture.

    Both 16:9 and NTSC replay are relatively new so the perception is that TVs have got worse. They probably haven't, in fact.

    If I were you, I'd hang on for a year or two; in that time, LCDs will probably be down to more sensible money and you can then do away with geometry problems for good.
     
  10. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,051
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,129
    Yes and then we'll just have to worry about poor contrast range and inadequate bit-depth.
     

Share This Page

Loading...