Plasma vs LCD

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mattruston

Guest
Given all the benefits of an LCD against a Plasma why do people still want to buy a plasma display? maybe i don't have a clue and i am new to this area, as i don't have either a lcd, plasma or the cash to buy one.
 
E

EvilMudge

Guest
How about the various pros and cons of each display:

LCD:
No screen burn, no cooling fans required. However, yields of panels are worse at plasma panel sizes, and the response time of an LCD pixel is poor compared to a Plasma pixel. Also they need to have the backlight replaced after 10,000 hours or so I'm told, and since LCD is effectively a filter, they are not as efficient at producing the required brightness level.

Plasma:
Large panels have decent yields, fast refresh rates, excellent brightness and the panel supposedly will last about the same as the backlight in an LCD display. However they are hot, noisy (when fans are running) and quite fragile things, which suffer from screen burn and phosphor wear.

Not so simple is it. From a purely technical point of view, they're about equal. From a manufacturing perspective, Plasma is way ahead.
 

Cabo 5150

Member
I have to say I think the screen-burn and phosphor wear issues are way, way over hyped, follow a few simple guidelines and you'll be OK. Also, I think I'm correct in saying a plasma will last about three times as long as an LCD backlight - around 30,000 hours. 5-10% brightness reduction in the first 1000 hours (should bearly be perceptable, if at all) and then 50% reduction to 30,000 hours.
 

Timh

Well-known Member
Can Plasma's have dead pixels? I know LCD panels can and do usually.
 

Cabo 5150

Member
Originally posted by Timh
Can Plasma's have dead pixels? I know LCD panels can and do usually.
Yes they can, although I think it's very rare nowadyas. I've had two Pannys, both of which have had 0% dead pixels. Can't say the same for my LCD screen that came with my Sony Vaio PC I bought a couple of months ago, it had a cluster of dead pixels - got it changed and the new one is fine. Maybe I was unlucky, anyone else know about dead pixels on LCD's. I was considering an LG as a bedroom set.
 

StooMonster

Well-known Member
Key difference is viewing angles:
Plasma, almost 180 degrees
LCD, try looking at a laptop screen from off centre.

StooMonster
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
Sweeping statements are often inaccurate.

The Sharp Aquos range of LCDs (among others) maintain a totally watchable image for at least 150 degrees in both planes.
 
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dca860

Guest
2 goods reasons:
1. Max size LCD is 30" at the moment which is nearly £5K. You ccan get a quality 42" plasma for a litle over 1/2 this money (£3K3 for a Panny)
2. go watch one and see - plasma FARRRRR more vivid, contrast, can be seen with high ambient light levels (LCD virtually vanishes) and 30,000 hour life expectancy for the Panny.

If comparitable sizes were available at similar prices, I might be tempted at LCD. Fans no longer exist in modern plasma thus noise not an issue. And the panny is 300W when running - this is approx that of a normal 32" TV - thus heat is not big issue either
Cheers
David (who you may have guessed is well chuffed with his new Panny plasma)
 
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dca860

Guest
Previous post on 0% dead pixels is wrong.
Panasonic will (and usually do) admit ALL but ALL panels have dead pixels.
Difference is that they completely die as opposed to glowing a weird colour. Also, because they're dea and glass, light from adjecent pixels lights them up and makes them all but invisible.
Bear in mind the last reported failure rate is 40% following manufacture - thus the high price)
They allow up to 5 dead pixels on 852x480 resolution. No more than 3 in the centre and none in the centre glowing constantly (something like that anyway)
 

Cabo 5150

Member
Originally posted by dca860
Previous post on 0% dead pixels is wrong.
Panasonic will (and usually do) admit ALL but ALL panels have dead pixels.
Difference is that they completely die as opposed to glowing a weird colour. Also, because they're dea and glass, light from adjecent pixels lights them up and makes them all but invisible.
Bear in mind the last reported failure rate is 40% following manufacture - thus the high price)
They allow up to 5 dead pixels on 852x480 resolution. No more than 3 in the centre and none in the centre glowing constantly (something like that anyway)
Well excuse me dca, I'll have to bow down to your obvious superior knowledge on this subject. I must be really stupid, but every time I've been right up in front of my Plasma - even on the brighest of scenes, I'm yet to see ANY evidence of your above statement. Believe me, I've looked very closely. If what you say is true, it's so imperceptible as to make NO difference at all. By the way, have you been round to my place lately to see my latest set? Please refrain from calling me wrong if you don't have all the facts, you have NOT seen my set, therefore you CANNOT call me wrong without making yourself look stupid. If your above post is not a sweeping statement (as mentioned by your good self earlier in this thread) I don't know what is. Thank you.
 
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dca860

Guest
Strange response from Cabo 5150 who is clearly narrow minded in his/her interpretation of my message and out to take like personally !
I have a plasma too and I can't see any dead pixels either.
I was not calling you a liar or similar I WAS QUOTING FROM PANASONIC CUSTOMER HELP - which is what I wrote.
I don't really give a toss what you do or don't notice, I was quoting from them who DO KNOW BETTER for the benefit of those considering a purchase.
Frankly, it matters not if there is a dead pixel if you can't see it does it - so - as far as you are concerned, you either have an exceptional set OR, you can't see any - either way - no problem and one up for the plasma vs LCD argument:eek:
On the other hand - perhaps you should see an optician :rolleyes:
 
J

j_smit

Guest
Just to clear a few things up...

Plasmas usually have a "life expectancy" of around 30,000 hours. Some screens have a mode (that lowers the brightness) to allow them to have a half life of 60,000 hours.

LCD on the other hand has a back light expectancy of around 60 - 80,000 hours. This is for LCD TV ie Sharp Aquos. I don't know about LCD monitors well enough to put my reputation on the line.

Viewing Angel - Plasma is 160 degrees H & V. LCD is normally less but again, Sharp Aquos LCD TV has a viewing angle of 170 degrees both H & V.

Pixels - All manufactures have different quotas for what is deemed acceptable for dead pixels. This is divided between area and what colour(s) the pixels are showing.

I would be amazed if I was wrong on any of the above.
 
E

EvilMudge

Guest
Thank you j_smit,

I think my info on lamp life was seriously out of date, undoubtedly they will have improved it by now.
Cheers.
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
Sharp do indded quote a backlight life expectancy of 60k hours (which is, nearly 7 years of continuous use). More than anyone is likely to need.

Even if backlight life were shorter - this component is basically a small fluorescent tube and can be replaced easily and cheaply (on some models - by the consumer). Quite a different matter to the damage that occurs to Plasma and CRT TVs as a result of phosphor burn - which requires replacement of the tube/plasma screen completely.

And, contrary to popular belief, phosphor burn occurs all the time - not just when you have logos onscreen. It's just more visible, and happens more quickly, when a logo (etc) is displayed for a prolonged period. In other words, and phosphor-based device will deteriorate irrepairably over time.
 
M

mikeq

Guest
Originally posted by dca860
Strange response from Cabo 5150 who is clearly narrow minded in his/her interpretation of my message and out to take like personally !
I have a plasma too and I can't see any dead pixels either.
I was not calling you a liar or similar I WAS QUOTING FROM PANASONIC CUSTOMER HELP - which is what I wrote.
Hi dca,

I must come to the defense Cabo 5150 (are you a Van Halen fan Cabo?). When I first read your post I took to say that Cabo was talking nonsense and Cabo was rightly upset by this. After your second post I went back and read your message again but didn't find any reference to this being a quote from Panasonic Customer Service. You should have made this clear in your initial post and that your interpretation of this is that 'no unit leaves the factory without any dead pixels'.

'Panasonic will (and usually do) admit ALL but ALL panels have dead pixels' - to me this means that Panasonic are covering their arse as every Joe Punter would be returning their plasmas for 1 dead/stuck pixel. It is possible that a small number of units do leave the factory without any dead pixels, it may be a very small percentage but it is just possible that Cabo has one of these

Mike
 

AVWotcha

Standard Member
I looked at the 30" Aquos yesterday and it did look very good indeed.

I can also confirm the 170 degree viewing angle (very little difference at any angle from what I could see). Also bear in mind this is a high resolution display 1280X768. Which is above most plasmas. 60000 hour backlight = about 20 years for most people who "have a life".

On the other hand, 30" is a tad small for my requirements, and it is an expensive screen at the size. Plus contrast of 500:1 is low compared to other plasmas these days.

It's a hard choice. So maybe JVCs new CRT is the way to go for now.
 
M

mattruston

Guest
i dont know about a crt display. those got replaced by lcd a long time ago on laptop screens. are they just as lame as tv screens? i know the tvs resolution is no way near that of latest computer needs but still...
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Hello all

Crikey these threads do get a bit hot sometimes - writing short messages in a hurry can lead to trouble!

Just to clarify a couple of points re Panasonic and pixels - seeing as Panasonic seems a hot topic on this thread.

Panasonic offer no 100% guarantee of pixel perfect displays with either LCD or Plasma technology and they also point out that some stuck or dead pixels may sort themselves out after the display has been used for a while (up to three months is quoted).

Panasonic Plasma displays - are warranted to not have any stuck pixels - red, blue or green and no dead green pixels in the centre of the screen (no definition of centre!).

Up to three red or blue dead pixels are allowable in the centre of the screen and up to six dead pixels of any colour are allowable around the outside of the screen and where there are two or more dead pixels they must not be within 5cm of each other.

Panasonic LCD TVs - are warranted to not have any red or green stuck pixels anywhere on the screen and up to two groups of stuck blue pixels in the centre and two groups of stuck blue pixels around the outer edges are allowable; with up to two pixels in each group.

If there are more than one group of stuck blue pixels they should be separated by at least 15mm.

Up to 8 dead pixels of any colour in any position on the screen are allowed - or up to 2 groups of 2 adjacent pixels in the centre of the screen and 6 groups around the outer edges.

Or up to 1 group of 3 pixels in the centre of the screen and 2 around the outer edges - in all cases if there is more than one group of pixels they should always be separated by at least 5cm.

Trust this clarifies things a bit further - oh and I can say that we get very very few dead pixels on Panasonic plasma displays.

Best regards

Joe
 
P

paiger

Guest
Can I just add that althoug £5k does sound a lot for a 30" screen, www.unbeatable.co.uk are doing the Sharp Aquos 30" LCD for £3200 inc. VAT. Quite a discount and brings it much more into the competition.

Myself, I would go for the LCD, mainly due to the small advantage in lack of screenburn. I mainly use a PJ for movies so don't require a bigger screen for general viewing. If you were to use the screen for ALL viewing, I can see that 30" would not be big enough for many people hence plasma wins inthat department.

For general, everyday viewing, LCD wins for me. It's lightweight, competetive on price and emits almost zero heat.

Steve
 

scrapbook

Distinguished Member
Joe Fernand said:
Hello all

Crikey these threads do get a bit hot sometimes - writing short messages in a hurry can lead to trouble!

Just to clarify a couple of points re Panasonic and pixels - seeing as Panasonic seems a hot topic on this thread.

Panasonic offer no 100% guarantee of pixel perfect displays with either LCD or Plasma technology and they also point out that some stuck or dead pixels may sort themselves out after the display has been used for a while (up to three months is quoted).

Panasonic Plasma displays - are warranted to not have any stuck pixels - red, blue or green and no dead green pixels in the centre of the screen (no definition of centre!).

Up to three red or blue dead pixels are allowable in the centre of the screen and up to six dead pixels of any colour are allowable around the outside of the screen and where there are two or more dead pixels they must not be within 5cm of each other.

Panasonic LCD TVs - are warranted to not have any red or green stuck pixels anywhere on the screen and up to two groups of stuck blue pixels in the centre and two groups of stuck blue pixels around the outer edges are allowable; with up to two pixels in each group.

If there are more than one group of stuck blue pixels they should be separated by at least 15mm.

Up to 8 dead pixels of any colour in any position on the screen are allowed - or up to 2 groups of 2 adjacent pixels in the centre of the screen and 6 groups around the outer edges.

Or up to 1 group of 3 pixels in the centre of the screen and 2 around the outer edges - in all cases if there is more than one group of pixels they should always be separated by at least 5cm.

Trust this clarifies things a bit further - oh and I can say that we get very very few dead pixels on Panasonic plasma displays.

Best regards

Joe

Thanks Joe,

That is really interesting and useful.

Can you do me a favour and post that in the FAQ??
 
hahaha, look at how far LCD has evolved guys. Nowadays LCD has better resolution, better brightness then plasma. Responstimes ar as fast as plasma displays.

Plasma is old news if you ask me.
 

ijd

Novice Member
have to say first time i saw this thread was tonight, thought what a load of old tosh, then looked at the date and yep, seems plasma are still back there in 2002 wheras lcd have come on in big leaps and bounds. :thumbsup:
 

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