Plasma v LED

Steve Burling

Standard Member
Hi there, this question has prob been asked before but I can't be bothered to trawl through looking for it.

I am interested in the Panasonic 46G10 46G15 & 42V10 Plasma models which all carry the new 600 HZ picture processing, but I have now found out (not upto date on all this tech for many years now) that there is LED (only found Sharp,Samsung & LG) in the fight with Plasma & LCD.

Would the picture be better on the Panasonic's 600 HZ or a 100HZ LED monitor???

Cheers
 

Ralphy1981

Well-known Member
You've opened up a can of worms here and with this being a Plasma forum I think you can guess the answer.

Plasma's are generally good for viewing fast moving action like sports or action movies and offer better blacks and a more natural look than LCD/LED.

LCD screens are normally eye burningly bright and in bright retail enviroments they appear to have better picture quality than Plasma's.
 

dq46

Active Member
Lastest Philips higher end 9 series range have LED (local dimming) that are getting very good reviews - check out AVF for large thread http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-...-lcd-2009-series-9604-9664-9704-part-2-a.html.

Not going to argue pro's con's as much very subjective - but being a greenie (no apologies for that) - power consumption on Plasma's are greater than LCD (like for like size). Also edge lit LED (like mine) claim up to 40% reduction in power use.
 

Jim Di Griz

Distinguished Member
Hi there, this question has prob been asked before but I can't be bothered to trawl through looking for it.

I am interested in the Panasonic 46G10 46G15 & 42V10 Plasma models which all carry the new 600 HZ picture processing, but I have now found out (not upto date on all this tech for many years now) that there is LED (only found Sharp,Samsung & LG) in the fight with Plasma & LCD.

Would the picture be better on the Panasonic's 600 HZ or a 100HZ LED monitor???

Cheers
Bear in mind these 'LED' tvs are just LCDs with LED backlighting - not true LED or OLED for instance.

And they havent got great reviews either from what ive seen.

Check the excellent in-depth reviews on this site. :)
 

Steve Burling

Standard Member
Cheers for responce, just to add into the mix has anyone got any comments on where these Panasonic G & V range fair up against the Plasma leader the Pioneer Kuro range. Is these 600 HZ better than the Kuro??????????
 

dq46

Active Member
Ok - will keep quiet after this ;) - here's a quote from the Philips thread above where poster moved had/has Kuro and purchased the 9704 Philips.

This is actually my first LCD, i replaced my Pioneer 5080XA with the new philips. I have always been a fan of Philips because of the great picture handling and Ambilight feature. Since i replaced my dear Kuro screen I was a bit worried that i would be dissapointed with a LCD screen, even with LED backlightning.
But i have to say that all my worries are now gone.
Picture via Digital Freeview is almost totally free of picture noice (of course its depending on the bitrate of the broadcast), but on most channels the quality is great, clean images!
Blacks are awesome! I have a Pioneer BDP320 blueray player, i am not used to total black in dark scenes, so i was a bit worried that i am loosing i bit details in black arreas... i dont know if this is a side effect from using LED backlightning. After a some tweeking with the different picture settings, i used the picture mode "Cinema", this preset dont need so many adjustments, but i have turned of Digital Natural Motion, Extra sharpness, dynamic contranst etc... one really nice thing is that even with Digital natural motion disabled, motion handling is really good!
The only really negative thing i have found a bit this set is the viewing angle... compared to my Pioneer the image gets really bright if you are sitting on the side... so sweet spot is defintive the best angle.. but for me this is not a big issue.

Please be free to ask questions.
 

Ralphy1981

Well-known Member
Not going to argue pro's con's as much very subjective - but being a greenie (no apologies for that) - power consumption on Plasma's are greater than LCD (like for like size). Also edge lit LED (like mine) claim up to 40% reduction in power use.
Who cares?? Picture quality is far more important to me. I'm the sort of person who also like big V8 cars that stick 2 fingers up to Gordan Brown :rotfl::devil:
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member
Who cares?? Picture quality is far more important to me. I'm the sort of person who also like big V8 cars that stick 2 fingers up to Gordan Brown :rotfl::devil:
Whilst i agree about the PQ, not sure putting two fingers up to GB is perhaps the best analogy; I'm sure is is more than happy to take all that fuel duty from you along with VAT, road tax & then stick two fingers up to you :D
Oh yes & you no what they say about blokes who need big cars ;)....hmm think i'm off to buy a smart car :D
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
Power usage is tiny in comparison to heating and lighting , 40% of a very small amount is a 40% smaller amount , the power usage of any TV is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things , just get a plasma and turn down your thermostat by 1 degree , the savings by doing that will swamp the miniscule usage of the TV.

Plasmas cannot be beat , check the reviews on here for that , this is not some delusional first time buyer Im quoting here , the guy has professionally and impartially reviewed a huge amount of screens ,

Panasonic's huge investment in Plasma technology (the highest quality display technology currently available) and the company's R&D efforts mean that they are well and truly capable of producing Plasma Display Panels with excellent black level, contrast, and motion resolution - a trio of achievements that no LCD, LED-assisted or not, can top.
Thats from this review ,

Panasonic TX-P65V10 Plasma HDTV Review at AVForums.com
 

Ralphy1981

Well-known Member
Whilst i agree about the PQ, not sure putting two fingers up to GB is perhaps the best analogy; I'm sure is is more than happy to take all that fuel duty from you along with VAT, road tax & then stick two fingers up to you :D
Oh yes & you no what they say about blokes who need big cars ;)....hmm think i'm off to buy a smart car :D
Surely the same can be said about blokes who have big tv's ?! :rotfl:
 

S Bibby

Novice Member
Hi,
the guy has professionally and impartially reviewed a huge amount of screens
I'm not sure about the impartial part. I don't know what his figures are but I'm not sure the latest Panasonic panels are that much better than the last or the entire TV market. That is a very misleading statement based on the current market and the performance indicators that are accurately measured. Contrast certainly isn't one of them.

Power consumption is Plasma is one of the reasons I didn't buy one, and to be honest 300/400 Watts for a TV is too much. It isn't an insigificant sum when you consider the amount of time people leave their Plasma TVs on for either. Picture quality is obviously another issue but to be honest I don't know much about Plasma Vs LED-lit LCD. It is probably best to compare model to model or like for like rather than make general comments. LED screens tend to be quite expensive compared to regular LCD TVs though and I don't know if there is enough of an improvement in most respects to justify the premium.
 
Last edited:

daveb975

Well-known Member
I have recently made the switch from plasma to LED-lit LCD. I am delighted with my sets, but I have to say that I would still have had the plasma given the choice.

I wall mount my TVs and just did not have space for the 17cm mounting depth required for the latest Panasonics. They are fine for stand mounting, but look a bit big & bulky on the wall unless you have a massive room.

In a brightly-lit room, the LED TVs are better than anything I have ever seen. In a darker room, the plasmas show better blacks and a much wider viewing angle. This is not to say the the LEDs are poor - they have a sharper image than anything else I have seen and still have better blacks than other LCDs that I have looked at.

The aesthetics on the LEDs are great, but you are paying for this - the 40" LED is £200 more expensive than the 42" G-series plasma. For me, it was worth the extra as the slim screen is much less dominating in my room. For most, the plasma will be better value.
 

S Bibby

Novice Member
Another thing you have to consider is that Contrast is based on ambient light to some degree and LCD TVs tend to absorb less light. However, some of the LED-lit LCD TVs such as those by Samsung have a Gloss panel which does not help with incoming light. I find that even Gloss frames around the panel can detract from viewing if there are significant reflections.
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member

andy1249

Distinguished Member
I'm not sure about the impartial part. I don't know what his figures are but I'm not sure the latest Panasonic panels are that much better than the last or the entire TV market. That is a very misleading statement based on the current market and the performance indicators that are accurately measured. Contrast certainly isn't one of them.
Read the reviews , all the figures and charts are posted , hence the impartial part , as for contrast , anyone that thinks those figures are arrived at honestly by any manufacturer hasnt done any research , contrast figures for any screen need to be taken with a pince of salt , its essentially a nonsense figure.

It isn't an insigificant sum when you consider the amount of time people leave their Plasma TVs on for either.
Do your sums , you pay for electricity by the kilowatt hour , thats 1000w per hour , ( so a plasma uses 1 unit every 2.5 hours ) calculate based on your bill for a unit and how many hours you leave the TV on per day , then subtract LCD figures , you'd be lucky to be saving £50 per year , now compare that to lighting and heating ... its nothing.
 
Last edited:

~dadam02~

Active Member
Ok - will keep quiet after this ;) - here's a quote from the Philips thread above where poster moved had/has Kuro and purchased the 9704 Philips.
Not sure what point you ae trying to get across there, unless it was to confirm that viewing angles are still a major issue with LCD/LED sets?
 

paulr2006

Distinguished Member
Read the reviews , all the figures and charts are posted , hence the impartial part , as for contrast , anyone that thinks those figures are arrived at honestly by any manufacturer hasnt done any research , contrast figures for any screen need to be taken with a pince of salt , its essentially a nonsense figure.



Do your sums , you pay for electricity by the kilowatt hour , thats 1000w per hour , ( so a plasma uses 1 unit every 2.5 hours ) calculate based on your bill for a unit and how many hours you leave the TV on per day , then subtract LCD figures , you'd be lucky to be saving £50 per year , now compare that to lighting and heating ... its nothing.
You are right of course but you also need to factor in the fact that it really does help with heating during the winter, my living room has never been so warm! & since I have resited the room stat there it means the heating hardly comes on :) & when I turn on my Onkyo Amp. which is another 900W it's almost like a sauna :D
 

S Bibby

Novice Member
Read the reviews , all the figures and charts are posted , hence the impartial part , as for contrast , anyone that thinks those figures are arrived at honestly by any manufacturer hasnt done any research , contrast figures for any screen need to be taken with a pince of salt , its essentially a nonsense figure.
Well, I do read most of the reviews on these sites and others but AV Forums have an unrepresentative sample. 7 Sony products (4 LCD TVs) compared to 17 Panasonic, 9 LG (5 Plasma TVs), 7 JVC and 4 Pioneer. 7 Toshiba (5 LCD TVs) - Just 2 Philips and 2 Samsung LCD TV products reviewed, 0 Sharp, 0 Hitachi.

I don't even see JVC or Panasonic Professional products in any shops locally and Pioneer TVs don't exist as of 2009.

Your point on Contrast was the same one I was trying to make. On power consumption - some AVF reviews include figures but they aren't complete and some don't even mention it. Most magazines and websites have this info and I read it regularly. My point is that all the TV does is provide a picture and I wouldn't expect it to use as much power as an Oven or a Dryer. I just don't think I want to go backwards in energy efficiency.
 
Last edited:

andy1249

Distinguished Member
My point is that all the TV does is provide a picture and I wouldn't expect it to use as much power as an Oven or a Dryer. I just don't think I want to go backwards in energy efficiency.
My point is that the power efficiency of LCD's is made too much of a selling point , the difference in actual cost is a pittance per year , and its more than made up for by the improvement in picture, there are no viewing angle issues with plasma , there is better movement , better blacks , etc.

Would you pay the extra in terms of power , yes easily when you do the calculations and see what it actually means in real terms.

If you want to save the planet , it wont be done by picking LCD over Plasma. That's a needless sacrifice , and having gone from 3 LCD screens to a Plasma , a sacrifice is exactly what it is.
 

S Bibby

Novice Member
My point is that the power efficiency of LCD's is made too much of a selling point , the difference in actual cost is a pittance per year , and its more than made up for by the improvement in picture, there are no viewing angle issues with plasma , there is better movement , better blacks , etc.
Well, I've no real issues with viewing angle past about 40 degrees and both of the latter points seem OK on my LCD TV - it uses about 80 watts in the current setting (Cinema). I don't know what the black depth is on the panel at the moment but brightness is fair/low. BTW (by the way) this wasn't a selling point and nobody told me about it, I just measured it myself. LED-lit sets do claim to use about 100 Watts at normal settings though. My point about AV Forums was that while they might be accurate, I wouldn't go so far as to claim they were objective when choosing to mention some things and ignore others, and much of the market in general.

If you want to save the planet , it wont be done by picking LCD over Plasma.
Well, I never said I did and I don't know anything about this point. Household consumption obviously makes some difference but how much is debatable.
 

.stu

Well-known Member
My point is that the power efficiency of LCD's is made too much of a selling point , the difference in actual cost is a pittance per year
I was reading a debate on this subject recently on an american forum, possible avsforum, and one contributor made the interesting point that power consumption was usually measured using out of box settings, i.e. vivid, and the results were that the lcds used slightly less power than plasmas.

However, once calibrated the difference becomes much more significant - the plasmas power consumption after calibration was slightly less then before, whereas at least one of the lcds used 1/3 of the power is used pre-calibration.

Obviously, not all the lcds saw such dramatic improvements, but there a significant difference between the lcds and plasmas after calibration.
 

S Bibby

Novice Member
Stu,
This is true, however the highest settings possible aren't really much use. With backlight on full (Dynamic) my LCD uses 160 Watts (37 inch, 1080p panel). On Natural ie. normal settings it is 120 and on the lowest backlight (Cinema) it is considerably lower, as mentioned above.

For reference I mainly use What Video and Home Cinema Choice since they measure at the ideal settings and with eco settings on. Printed in the magazine are power consumption figures for a White screen and test footage. Sometimes there is a difference between these figures, but it doesn't vary that much. It is easy to do this with a commercial Energy Monitor and you can work out the averages without much fuss.
 

The latest video from AVForums

Panasonic HZ2000 4K OLED TV Review | The best OLED for movie viewing in 2020

Latest News

Samsung updates and expands access to Samsung TV Plus
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Disney+ UK introduces GroupWatch co-viewing feature
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
What's new on Netflix UK for November 2020
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
Harman Kardon launches Citation Amp
  • By Andy Bassett
  • Published
AVForums Podcast: 21st October 2020
  • By Phil Hinton
  • Published
Top Bottom