plasma screen burn, user mis-use or mechanical / technology fault

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by mgh0001, Apr 25, 2007.

  1. mgh0001

    mgh0001

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    trafford, manchester
    Ratings:
    +3
    hi all,
    i'm after any advice off anyone who is in the know about plasma screen burn. when a plasma suffers from screen burn is it user mis-use or a pdp technology faulty?. i ask because i purchased a plasma and on the second day of use i watched a footy game and at half time when the scoreboard went off in the corner it had burnt on to the screen that fast, just after only 45 mins being on display on the pdp screen. i had only used the plasma for two days from new

    i would appreciate any help and knowledge on the subject
    many thanks
    mike
     
  2. scotthillier

    scotthillier
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Messages:
    133
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Bristol
    Ratings:
    +26
    I'd like to know that too.

    I only need to have a dvd menu on my screen for a couple of mins, and a ghost of it stays there for a long time after unless I use the screen white out to remove it.
    :(
     
  3. choddo2006

    choddo2006
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    8,528
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +542
    that's image retention, by the sound of it, not screen burn.

    It varies by screen and is also reduced by sensible settings. I get none, never have had.
     
  4. robin78

    robin78
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2005
    Messages:
    477
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +49
    Plasma are more sensitive to image retention and screen burn the first couple of hundred hours. That´s why many on this forum advice to turn the brightness/contrast down for the first weeks. Also some brands/models are more sensitive, my 42PX60 is displaying the same network logo about 80% of the time (my favorite station) but never displays a hint of burn.
     
  5. Monty1977

    Monty1977
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2003
    Messages:
    2,736
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Worthing
    Ratings:
    +114
    Never had any retention on my Panny despite a lot of gaming and watching TV stations with logos ... ran it in as per the manual, couple of hundred hours at 50% contrast IIRC and stayed away from 'Dynamic' modes.

    ..as said already it varies wildly between models/manufs - Panasonic generally seem to fare quite well and the cheaper brands using older gen panels much worse :(

    Adam
     
  6. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,345
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,218
    if you leave them in the retina burning default settings then you will get retention (goes away) which will lead to burn (stays forever and a day ahmen) and read your manual......
     
  7. neily1970

    neily1970
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Messages:
    117
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +10
    I have come to the conclusion that the breaking in thing is not maybe the reason your set is more sensitive...or not...From what i read and read and read, Some screens have it & Some dont. Everyone seems to assume if yu follow the 200 hr break in rule then your screen will adapt and somehow be more resilient to I/R or burn...I personally have my doubts.

    4 weeks ago i took delivery of a lg 42px5d as soon as it was unpacked it became clear the set was badly damaged (dents in casing, scratches to surround ect) but after viewing the set we were impressed by the P/Q and not a sign of I/R or burn even with 4.3 and any logos we threw at it. But after two weeks they came to collect the "FAULTY" set only to send me the set i am looking at now..same model but with no dents or scratches and all very new and shiny.
    However this set is rediculously sensitive to the I/R issue i can bearly watch any chanel here in the uk as they all have those Logos n bits all over exept analogue..My point is i watched one model for 2 weeks without worrying about the rules ad all was good and ive had this same model (with maybe a different panel) for just under 2 weeks and i constantly seem to be monitoring what is watched and for how long I wish i had kept the non shiny set now and i cant be bothered goin thru the hassle of returning it. I just think your screens got it or it aint

    Soz for rambling
    cheers
     
  8. hornydragon

    hornydragon
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2001
    Messages:
    28,345
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Somewhere near the M4 most of the time......
    Ratings:
    +1,218
    sounds like the first set you had was not new and had been used for a while hence not as prone.............are you using default silly settings?
     
  9. neily1970

    neily1970
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Messages:
    117
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +10
    Thanx, no this time round i have settings turned down to below halfway point
    but there is strong I/R on this panel. Ialso notice what apears to be Burn when i turn to a chanel with no input video .ie. dark screen there is a defenite dark image at the bottom of screen it looks like a phone number as i can make out the first 0870 numbers, i know it has not been since i had it and to me looks like it could possibly be a store logo with their Tel#

    ive ran the whitewash feature a few times but it aint budgin man:rolleyes:
    cheers
     
  10. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    9,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +986
    I would call them and get them to take it away before it is too late.

    Sorry to bang on about this run in thing, but I think we need to clear something up, yes you need to get the screen setting right while running in, but this is NOT just a case of putting the settings down low.
    Different screens come out of the factory with different midway points, so one screen can have perfect white level at 50%, the next it could be 25%, another it could be 75%.
    This is why you all need to calibrate your screen, if contrast needs to be at 25% on your screen then having it it 50% is going to cause problems, simple as that.

    So take two minutes and follow all the guides on here, every other thread has them. You may save yourself a lot of heatache!?
     
  11. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    9,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +986
    Just to add, a mate of mine who had been using a Panasonic PW5 for 3 odd years bough a Pioneer 436, he got it out of the box and put everything to around 40% thinking this would be good enough, he got screen burn with a week.
    When I went over and looked at it and calibrated it, his contrast settings needed to be around 18%, so no wonder he got image burn, he was well over driving it!!
     
  12. 961

    961
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,675
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Berwickshire
    Ratings:
    +667
    You'll see from all these posts that...

    it's a feature of the technology
    some manufacturers have dealt with it better than others
    there really is not enough advice "in the box" for new owners as to how to "run in" their new set

    Also, from some of the posts here, you do need to ensure you actually get a new set. Not one that's been rejected by another customer, or one that has been on display (at high settings) in a retail outlet

    Remember too that all manufacturers disclaim all responsibility for screen burn, usually in their instruction manual, saying it is not a manufacturing fault
     
  13. simonoaks

    simonoaks
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,821
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Dunstable
    Ratings:
    +72
    I am looking to purchase my first plasma soon; does this mean if you get sreen burn, it is not covered by manufacturer or retailer ? You just have to put up with it ?

    If so, and it happens to me, I will just have a household "accident" and get a new one on contents insurance :)
     
  14. choddo2006

    choddo2006
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    8,528
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +542
    Correct

    and ok, but let's pretend you didn't post that prediction of defrauding an insurance company on a public internet forum :)
     
  15. norfbech

    norfbech
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    790
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +30
    Giz - do you use the Calibration DVD often referred to on here?
    Might be a worthy investment as I haven't really any other means to calibrate this set...although somebody mentioned hidden menu options on THX dvd's...
     
  16. neily1970

    neily1970
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Messages:
    117
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +10
    Giz, is the dvd all you need to calibrate the set? where can you get it and at what cost...Thanks for the info too
     
  17. mgh0001

    mgh0001

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    498
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    trafford, manchester
    Ratings:
    +3
    hi all
    thanks for all your replies. the tv model is the sony kdep42mrx1 flagship. sent it for repair and sony said they wont repair because its user mis-use. how can it be user mis-use? surely screen burn is a product or technology failure.
    the media box with it that controls everything is also faulty.
     
  18. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    9,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +986

    I do you a calibration disc on some screens, but you can pretty much do it by eye.

    I use the white text on a menu to set the white level (contrast), I use a menu as you know this is white, you can't use video white (unless it is a test disc) as you are not sure if it is pure white, so a menu from sky or freeview is good to use.
    Quite simply put everything at mid point to start with, colour temp warm, and gamma 2.2 (or in cinema mode on consumer screens).
    Then drop the contrast down to the point where the whites no longer look white, they start to go a bit yellow normally, now knock it back up again so it looks white again.
    Knock the colour down till it looks washed out, then knock it up again slightly, so things look natural but not over saturated.
    Then for brightness I just put a film up with black bars, stand next to the screen and knock it down until it is noise free, no pixels lit in it and no shimmering, this is as black as it will go so going any darker will just crush detail.

    Using a calibration disc can be more of a pain than doing it this way imho, problem is trying to set white level using test patterns can be very confusing, as can setting colour. So brightness is the only thing you can really use them unless you start using a colouromitor for setting colour temp and gamma, but to be fair that is starting to get pricey and time consuming, and they are pretty good out of the box anyway.

    I would always own a calibration disc, but wouldn't always rely on them without the proper tools if that makes sense?
     
  19. simonoaks

    simonoaks
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,821
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Dunstable
    Ratings:
    +72
    I wouldn't go as far as to call it a prediction lol

    I fully intend to follow instructions on running in the screen, although might be lucky and panny or Pio might have sorted the issue out with the next gens coming in a few weeks. Authough, if it is something inherrant in the technology..then maybe not.

    Seems a bit off that if you follow the instruction manual, and it still burns, you cannot get replacement as it wasn't fit for purpose. Have there ever been any legal test cases regarding this ?
     
  20. neily1970

    neily1970
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2007
    Messages:
    117
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +10
    Cheers giz, will deffo give this a go, thanx for the tips and if all works will have saved a few quid too. Sounds like basically what a disc would do exept i think they use like a white shirt for the test.
    thanx again
     
  21. gpa

    gpa
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    2,835
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +308

    Panny are pretty much built proof when it comes to permanent retention, the odd bit of retention can be induced but will go very quickly. I have not bothered running my latest 9 at vastly reduced settings, The PW 4-6-8 I have had have been so good there really is no point, save taking it off Dynamic.

    Every Panny i have owned has been used as i would any normal TV including some very long hours stuck on news or children's channels, because someone forgot to turn it off:D

    I cannot comment on Pio but the Panny as I have stated is built proof.
     
  22. simonoaks

    simonoaks
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,821
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Dunstable
    Ratings:
    +72
    thanks,

    I think what I will do (when it is eventually released) is read up more here on the subject and take people's settings advice.

    Hopefully it will be similar process/settings no matter what model ?
     
  23. 961

    961
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,675
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Berwickshire
    Ratings:
    +667
    OR, and this will get the thread going.....

    like me, buy an LCD, perhaps a slightly different picture experience according to some, and forget all about screen burn:)
     
  24. WGLOVER

    WGLOVER
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    1,598
    Products Owned:
    2
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Billinge, Wigan
    Ratings:
    +121
    Or buy a Panasonic.
     
  25. simonoaks

    simonoaks
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,821
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Dunstable
    Ratings:
    +72
    When I first had sign off from the missus to go spend some money (5 weeks ago), I was only looking at LCD (as shops seem swamped with them).

    As with any major purchase, I do not rush into anything, and have extensively research everything. I was originally looking to buy the Sony 46 X series, but no matter how good the screen might be, it is not good enough for watching sport (my primary viewing).

    I know that until the next gen technology comes out (laser, SED etc) where I am sure there will be a definitive "best" screen type, the plasma/LCD debate will continue.

    However, in my mind, I feel LCD is a poor technology, has too much lag and jitters (even the 4ms screens) and for me, is just not fit for purpose.

    I also think, having read so much on here, that the only argument any LCD fan can throw up against plasma, is the screen burn thing (oh, and sometimes the 1080p "issue"). No-one will ever challenge that plasma provides a better picture, motion, blacks etc etc. IMHO, if you look after a plasma properly from the start (and buy a good model) the risks of screen burn of negligible, far far less likely that LCD owners would have you think.

    Therefore, in my mind it is a "no brainer". Plasma is superior, in fact so much so, I am genuinely surprised why it is even debated lol !!!
     
  26. 961

    961
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,675
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Berwickshire
    Ratings:
    +667

    Can't disagree with much of that and to be truthful the only make of tv in this house for the last 20 years has been....Panasonic

    However, the put off for me was when I downloaded the Panasonic manual for the 42" plasma before placing an order

    There on the opening page was a warning about screen burn with the friendly advice that "this is not a defect and as such is not covered by the Panasonic warranty"

    Sorry, but on a long term purchase at this sort of money that's a risk I can't take, even if Panasonic is one of the better makes in this regard. TV's here spend long periods on channels with permanent logos and score boxes

    As for LCD, while I accept that plasma can give better pictures it's not all doom and gloom and I can't say the Sony we have is bothered by jitters and poor motion
     
  27. simonoaks

    simonoaks
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,821
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Dunstable
    Ratings:
    +72
    I can see why some people could be put off. Lets face it, we are shelling out a lot of money. But like anything in life, it is about assessing and managing the risks. I just do not think there is actually much risk in screen burn happening.

    Besides as I said before, there are ways of getting your money back if it does happen
     
  28. langbarb

    langbarb
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have been running in my new Panasonic 42PX70 for about 40 hours. Being my first plasma (I switched from LCD due to poor handling of SD, panny far superior so far) I was very worried about image retention and screen burn. So I carefully read throuh the forum and the hdtvtest and set the screen as suggested.
    No props until today when I left the tv on and went out for a couple of hours. Stupidly I did not zoom in and when I came back I realised I left the tv on BBC1 where the "press red" icon was on... i changed channel and noticed the "press red" logo in the background. After a few seconds it disappeared, but it was a major scare... of course i'll be more careful now on, but once the 200h run in are over, what shall i do? Shall I still be worried about imager retention or not? should I be careful with the black bands when I watch a movie? any help?
     
  29. Mister-E

    Mister-E
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Use and abuse and have fun. I would not worry about it otherwise it will ruin your enjoyment and in all reality screen burn will not happen :)
     
  30. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    9,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +986
    I get loads of retention as I leave images on all day sometimes, but with a minute of being on a naother channel it has gone.Don't worry.
     

Share This Page

Loading...