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Plasma + Scaler

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by jetblast, Aug 7, 2001.

  1. jetblast

    jetblast
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    I have a Panasonic TH-42PW3 Plasma T.V.

    and presently run S-Video through my Meridian 561 AV processor to the screen

    Would the use of a scaler improve the picture quality when watching Sky Digital and DVD material (Sony 725 DVD)

    over on the AVS forum they seem to think it makes a difference. I wondered what the contributors to this forum thought.
     
  2. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    OK managed to get someone to give me a hand unbox this thing. Left it to warm up for 30 mins then did a quick check over it.

    Did quick playback through FMJ DVD component output. Plenty of artifacts using internal de-interlacing and scaling and a lot less using the FMJ. These artifacts are not as distressing or obvious as they would be on a large display device though. The FMJ uses an Iscan de-interlacing chip so that may be a good first step to try if you can find someone to lend you one.

    I'll try our Runco PFP11 scaler with it tomorrow. It has a 852 x 480 pixel setting for use with this plasma. Should be best option.

    Gordon
     
  3. Guest

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    Gordon,<br /> Does this mean the Panny plasma will feature in the event? If so (as it's what I own) it would make the event all the more relevant to me and would I'm sure help me get the most out of what is after all a hell of an investment!

    Cheers<br />Andy
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I would expect the de-interlacing would be better in an external scaler. Certainly DVD's should look better. We have just recieved one of these units this morning. If we have time I'll plug it in and test it with some devices and give you my thoughts tomorrow.

    Gordon
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    zAndy: Sorry this unit is in for 10 days then it's off to London for an installation... i'll try and sweet talk Alan at StereoStereo in to keeping it until end of August but I think you're out of luck.

    I did some greyscale measurements of the thing last night too. If I get the chance I'll add another page to my web site today under the ISF section with pic sof before and after along with graphs of what it was doing.

    Gordon
     
  6. jetblast

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    Thanks Gordon. I asume that a scaler would also improve the Sky picture as well as the DVD.<br />zAndy1 Would be very interested in how you have your panny connected to the rest of your equipment as I also would like to get the best out of the screen.

    Regards jetblast
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The pic from DVD was much improved using prog outputs from FMJDVD and Runco scaler to the plasma.

    The problem now is finding a scaler which will de-interlace PAL then downconvert it to 480P... The Runco will nto accept PAL at this output resolution (it's really too expensive anyway). I'm investigating whether the Quadscan Elite will do this.

    zAndy1: I'm now trying to see if we can buy a dem Panasonic plasma for the event......

    Gordon
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The pic from DVD was much improved using prog outputs from FMJDVD and Runco scaler to the plasma.

    The problem now is finding a scaler which will de-interlace PAL then downconvert it to 480P... The Runco will nto accept PAL at this output resolution (it's really too expensive anyway). I'm investigating whether the Quadscan Elite will do this.

    zAndy1: I'm now trying to see if we can buy a dem Panasonic plasma for the event......

    Gordon
     
  9. Chippy99

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    Jetblast, just remember the Panny does not accept a 576p feed!

    Also, does your Meridian have lip sync adjustment? If not, you will have big problems using the Panny with an external scaler, since the combined lip sync delay will make it unwatchable. The Panny introduces 3 or 4 fields delay and the Iscan 4, I think. So 8 fields = 4 frames = miles out! Other scalers only introduce a 2 field delay, but 6 is still too much and very offputting!

    Chip.
     
  10. JohnAd

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    Gordon

    Have you tried the Rock+ with the plasma, that should have a suitable modes and be able to do PAL.

    Otherwise can we try Kryton on it on Sunday, I'd be very, very interested in the results of this.

    John
     
  11. Guest

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    Jetblast, I've got my Arcam DV88 connected to the component inputs. The problem I have is that I've had the DV88 upgraded with the progressive scan board which uses a seperate set of outputs and R2 PAL discs don't work so to watch R2 I have to use the non progressive origial component outputs, major pain in the ass! Anyway I have Sky Digibox connected to my Tivo by RGB scart and the Tivo RGB output connected to an RGB to VGA convertor and from that to the panny PC input. I then have a few bits connected to the S-Video input namely PS2 and Humax Digital Receiver. All in all it works quite well but I've got some rewiring to do when Sky+ is installed in just over a week!

    And I'd be very interested in seeing Kryton on the Panny plasma too, hopefully that can be sorted out as it is just what I'm looking for. See anyone who's going at the event on sunday!

    Cheers,<br />Andy.
     
  12. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    If we have time I'll try and get the plasma and Kryton together. It's not a priority though and this is a clients Plasma who is VERY fussy....So NO STICKY FINGERS!!!!!

    I have now succesfully achieved PAL progressive in to the Plasma using RGsB in put.

    Gordon
     
  13. Guest

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    PAL progressive into the panny, really! Using what source Gordon? My problem is that the PAL progressive I'm outputting is 625p which the panny doesn't like one bit, presumably you're feeding it a 720p signal then? Do you think it makes much difference from feeding it a PAL interlaced signal?

    Anyway see you Sunday when no doubt we can discuss further...

    Cheers,<br />Andy.
     
  14. Guest

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    Guys,

    Very interested in this thread... i have the same panny and am thinking about buying an i-scan for my sky-digital etc.. in an aid to increase the quality.

    If the panny doesnt support 576p, does this also mean that when Arcam release the Pal Prog scan update that i wont be able to watch them on my panny?

    Thx - a worried plasma owner ! <br />Kev
     
  15. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I've managed to get a D3 42" Panasonic Palsma to sync and display a 576P PAL signal in a RGsB format. IscanPro can be set to output RGB or YPbPr. It should work I'd think.

    Gordon
     
  16. Guest

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    thanks for the positive response gordon.

    hmmmm trouble is that its an expensive mistake to make if it doesnt work.

    If anyone is able to try this please let me know

    Thx<br />Kev
     
  17. simoncope

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    Gordon - have you had any success using the Quadscan Elite with plasma screens? I must admit I know very little about this product; I gather that they produce two versions, one of which is specifically aimed at plasma screens....? Also, I understand that there is a new upgrade/version which is much more accommodating to PAL?
     
  18. simoncope

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    I was talking to someone on a stand at CEDIA about the Elite, and he seemed to think that there was specific 'plasma' version. To be honest, I can't remember if the stand was actually Quadscan's or a distributor's, or exactly what the guy told me!! I really should make notes as I walk round these big shows - there's just too much to take in!!
     
  19. Guest

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    Gordon,<br /> You've got the Panny to accept a 576p signal from what exactly? I've tried an Iscan Pro on the DV88 and it seemed to work fine but that outputs 480p for NTSC and 720p for PAL which the Panny display is happy with. The problem is the 625p output which the Panny doesn't accept. I'm going to get onto Panasonic to see if they can change the panel software to accept 625p but I'm not holding my breath!

    Cheers<br />ANdy
     
  20. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Andy:

    There are around 525 lines in the NTSC TV system, 480 of these are active picture content. There are 625 lines in the PAL TV system of which 576 ish are active picture content. So really you want 576P capability...(this is for others reading this thread who may be confused)

    Now, the Iscan doesn't as far as I know, output 720P from PAL. That would involve scaling and I don't believe it has that capability. You should be getting 576P from it. My experience with your Plasma is that 576P in component YPbPr is not a happening event while 576P on RGsB is.

    The Source was a prototype DVD player. I cannot tell anymore, sorry.

    Gordon
     
  21. Guest

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    Yep, I stand corrected, the Iscan Pro outputs 576p with PAL sources as you said and yes the Panny can accept a 576p signal on the PC input (and probably on the component input as well). When I tried the Iscan Pro with my Panny I got tearing of the picture at the top which immediately put me off it, perhaps I should try another and see what I think now (I know what I'm looking for after the event!).

    Cheers<br />Andy
     
  22. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Andy,

    You may have to adjust size and picture shift functions on the D3 to get rid of strange anomalies at screen edges. Let us know ho wyou get on.

    Cheers,

    Gordon
     
  23. Guest

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    Andy, Gordon..

    interesting inputs.. thanks.

    Do either of you have the capability to test this again and see what the score is? I have a contact at panasonic (who supplied my panel) so i will ask the question to him when he gets back from holiday next week.

    Thx<br />Kev
     
  24. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Kev,

    I don't have an Iscan just now. I can use a Vigatec and set it to Line Doubling. It will output RGBHV or any other sync (ie RGsB, RGBComposite sync) and it will be real 576P PAL progressive. This will be the same as an Iscan or as near as I can emulate...

    I'm away all day tomorrow installing. I'll check Friday if Andy hasn't confirmed all this for you by then.....

    P.S. Any of you guys want your Plasma's calibrated <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> I'm doing a wee tour down south you know.
     
  25. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Hi Simon,

    I thought about the Elite for use with Plasma. The last time I checked the Elite version didn't have any plasma resolution outputs. I called today to confirm this and it still doesn't. So unless they do another, newer version I don't know about (and neither does the distributor) it would seem you're out of luck.

    You could try sending a higher res signal like sxga to the plasma and let it do the scaling of course...but I'm not too sure what sort of result that would elicit with a Quadscan. Also, "aspect ratio control" isn't available at low resolutions with the Elite so you'd need to be careful which Plasma you used it with.

    Cheers,

    Gordon
     
  26. Guest

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    Gordon,

    Thats great thanks for your efforts..... If your doing a 'calibration tour' down south i would love to use your services! (when?) - and i would recommend any other users to do the same ;o)

    Cheers,<br />Kev
     
  27. Guest

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    Calibrated how Gordon? And how much for the priviledge? Do you mean picture settings or more geometry sort of stuff? If you try as much as possible with the Panny and let me know the results I'd appreciate it!

    Cheers<br />Andy
     
  28. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Andy,

    I mean greyscale accurately set so that colour rendition is more accurate. Have a look at my web site under "services", "ISF calibration" or "ISF example".

    The D3 Panasonic has the extra menu where you can set red and blue cut offs and gains relative to green. As you can see it makes a big difference if you do it right.

    If you mail me your whereabouts in the country I can send a price list and let you know when I'm in your neck of the woods.

    Gordon...

    <br />P.S KEV. Can you let me know where you are too.
     
  29. Guest

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    errrr... it says where I'm from at the bottom of my posts, at least I can see it I don't know about everyone else... Anyway I'm in S****horpe, Nth Lincs.

    Cheers,<br />Andy
     
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