Plasma gas charging fault

MR2Harvey

Novice Member
Well this is the first we have heard of it from the 3000 / 400E and those models have sold thousands and been talked about in depth on hear for months. Although this is a real problem for the guys who have it, the scale of the problem tends to get exagerated on this type of forum. You'll probably have to wait until the next model out 6000? arrives before you start hearing stories of problems with the 5000!
 

MAW

Banned
Harvey, there is a lot of truth in what you say, but though the PD3000 is certainly much talked about, I'd be surprised if there were more then say 30 members who have them. With at least 4 or 5 'faulty, and at least 3 that I can think of having already had problems, this is truly worrying, and most guys have only had them a few months, just talked about it for ages first, then waited a long time. My installs have about a 1-2% failure rate, all faults across the makes I deal with. This is an order of magnitude worse.
 

johndon

Well-known Member
I have to say that I agree with Harvey to a large extent.

I guess I've had the 42PD3000 longer than most on this forum (since last July) and, as I said in my previous post, I'd never noticed the problem until a scene in Finding Nemo with a completely black screen and then, to be honest, I probably only noticed because I had read this thread.

On my panel that's the only time it's noticeable. Since I spotted it, I can't see it at all with anything other than a totally black screen under normal circumstances it's simply not an issue for me.

John
 
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mikeblanche

Guest
Re legal advice - your home buildings/contents insurance may include "legal cover" which may provide for the cost of a solicitor in cases like this. Read your home insurance policy.

mike
 
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Elvis

Guest
I can understand where you're coming from Johndon, I have wondered about giving up on taking things any further, after all it will be an awful lot of hassle. But I think that everytime I spot it whilst watching a movie it will bug me (as it has in the past), and when you pay £3K for a TV I don't really think that's on. As MAW points out, if they'll change a TV because it has screen burn why not because of this fault?

After all Hitachi's own literature states [The new panel technology will] '...produce unrivalled and amazing picture performance' No mention of grey blobs for an unlucky few, or that the technology is so 'cutting edge' they cannot guarantee consistent quality across the product line. John Lewis 'forgot' to mention this fact too.
 
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pdkelly

Guest
I have a 5000 - I have had no problem with it so far - in fact I am more than impressed. I have not checked for this problem though. I will check tonight and give you MHO. Any idea how to test properly - are there any films etc that I can watch that would reproduce it.
 
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Peter Webb

Guest
I just recently watched Finding Nemo on my Sony KE32TS2, and the black shots (more like grey), were uniform across the whole screen.Sony and Philips use their own electronics to Drive these ALiS screens though,but it could simply be a substandard batch of panels.

Hope those affected get this resolved to their satisfaction
 

MAW

Banned
Thanks for that Peter, any more Sonys? 1 is not a representative sample, it'd be good to hear more. Fujitsu Alis too, though I know someone to ask there, I have not heard of it. But the fault as described seems like the glass not the electronics, so how it is unique to Hitachi I cannot see. But we can only judge on what is reported.
 
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Elvis

Guest
I think the best test for grey blob syndrome is probably the scene in Finding Nemo when they dive for the goggles. If you watch that in the dark and the black (or grey) is consistent then you probably don't have a problem, this isn't something which develops over time, it seems to be apparent from day one, if you know what to look for.

On the other hand you may prefer not to know, once you spot it you'll be looking for it all the time.:(
 

Galaxy

Active Member
I watched Finding Nemo last night, great film and the deep sea dive was black, no grey blobs at all, and I have been extremely happy with the level of black available after setting up carefully, I had been reading posts in here before buying my Hit 500E and was not going to cinsider one until I saw a 400E on display in RS, I was impressed! the first time I had seen a good Plasma on display in an "ordinary" high street shop.
So to sum up, my Hitachi 500E looks black and even.

Best regards David
 

Kaboom

Standard Member
I have the pd5000 and i have been very impressed with the screen i am also using the dvi socket for the computer so i set the preview screen saver to black and give it a go i am happy to say that the picture is solid with no clouding so it could just be the older models or even a bad batch but that does not make up for the bad customer service that you all seem to be recieving if my screen had been cloudy i could have taken it back as i have only had it for a matter of weeks so thanks for the warning and i hope this helps

p.s dont give up you have all spent over £2500-£3000 the level of service should excellent
 

michael6

Active Member
Hi Elvis

I have just finished speaking to JL and they are going to do nothing. The woman I spoke to said that plasma screens where not meant to be watch in darkness or dim lighting !!!.

The expert!!! at hitachi had declared it within tolerance so it does not need to be repaired or replaced.

Interestingly she had also never come across this problem before,
strange when we have both been dealing with the same store.

Top class customer service.

I will now have to decide what to do next.

Michael
 
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Elvis

Guest
I have spent the weekend amassing information on the sale of goods act, and I'm pretty sure JLs behaviour could fall foul of it on a number of counts. I am waiting to hear back from Trading Standards and have written to the Guardian Newspapers' consumer column asking advice.

As for plasma screens not being viewed in the dark that's a load of b*llocks. Where does it say in any sales literature, specification, advertising etc for any manufacturer that screens should only be viewed in a well lit room? Are JL suggesting that if anyone views a plasma without ambient lighting they are operating the screen incorrectly. This just gets more absurd. I bet if you phoned up to try and buy one and casually suggested that you would want to view it in a darkened 'Home theatre' fashion there would be no warning forthcoming that you would be exceeding the manufacturers specification for viewing conditions and should expect a poor picture.:confused:

Probably the only thing which will budge JL on this issue is a threat to tarnish their reputation for customer service. Obviously a court case could do this, but it would be a lengthy and time consuming procedure.
 

MR2Harvey

Novice Member
Originally posted by Elvis
I have spent the weekend amassing information on the sale of goods act, and I'm pretty sure JLs behaviour could fall foul of it on a number of counts. I am waiting to hear back from Trading Standards and have written to the Guardian Newspapers' consumer column asking advice.

As for plasma screens not being viewed in the dark that's a load of b*llocks. Where does it say in any sales literature, specification, advertising etc for any manufacturer that screens should only be viewed in a well lit room? Are JL suggesting that if anyone views a plasma without ambient lighting they are operating the screen incorrectly. This just gets more absurd. I bet if you phoned up to try and buy one and casually suggested that you would want to view it in a darkened 'Home theatre' fashion there would be no warning forthcoming that you would be exceeding the manufacturers specification for viewing conditions and should expect a poor picture.:confused:

Probably the only thing which will budge JL on this issue is a threat to tarnish their reputation for customer service. Obviously a court case could do this, but it would be a lengthy and time consuming procedure.
Don't worry their reputation for customer service has already been tarnished on these forums. So much for all buying from JL, 5 year warrenty and great service.... I nearly bought from them too!
 

duke748

Member
Elvis,

My new 42pd3000 doesnt seem to exhibit this problem. Still burning it in at the moment though. So 33% Contrast - Brightness couple of notches below 50 % etc

What settings are you using. I can try to replicate with your exact settings tonight if you like
 

michael6

Active Member
I will also be taking this up with Trading Standards.

Over the past few days JL staff have told me that:

All plasma screens display grey clouding of this nature to some extent.

This is a feature! of the Hitachi screen in particular.

They are not designed to be watched in a dim or dark room.

The clouding is due to the new technology and they are not like a CRT set.

I was not made aware of all these so called short comings when I purchased the TV. If they really believe the c**p that they are telling me why do they sell them in the first place.

Hitachi are of course also at fault here passing these screens off as within tolerance, they do not back this up with any form of measurement or proof. I wonder if once Hitachi's twelve month parts & labour warranty expires they will still adopt this stance.

The clouding could be a fault which causes the screen to fail prematurely, it will then be JL who have to foot the bill not Hitachi, so this could possibly come back and bite them in the a*se yet .


Michael
 

MAW

Banned
Please be assured that this feature is not inherent in any plasmas I have sold! Nor in any Hitachis I have seen, contrary to some folks feelings, I have no particular gripe with Hitachi, just not my personal favourite. I do feel one of the reasons for their ability to price so keenly may be due to lower quality control standards. They also aim more at the mass market, where many customers are nowhere near so well informed as you guys, and might either not notice, or not have the gumption to take it further.
 

Galaxy

Active Member
Michael6,

Can you not argue the case long and forecfull enough with Hitachi/JL who ever, and insist they show you side by side a new Plasma out of the box that exhibits the saem symptoms as yours?
If they are correct in saying (and we all know they are not becuase many of us here have the same screens with no problems you describe) all Plasmas display this "grey" cloud effect then they should have no reason not to prove the "characteristic" to you!
I just can't believe they are saying this........maybe we really are all morons?

Best of luck matey

best regards David
 

MAW

Banned
Hmm, wrong approach, David. What if they do? You need to demonstrate the panels in question are below par, not 'normal'. You're just back to front, not stupid, I hasten to add!
 
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Elvis

Guest
Of course it may be that the panels are within Hitachi's specification. No one has seen their specification so who knows what it says? I believe in individual cases it's a waste of time pursuing Hitachi, John Lewis are the ones to go for. If they come under enough pressure maybe they will take on Hitachi themselves.

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 states goods must:

Be fit for any purpose which the consumer makes known to the seller. - Well I guess it's pretty clear I'd like to be able to watch TV on it. It is packaged as a TV after all.

Reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description. - Taking into account the price I don't think that grey blobs are satisfactory. I consider myself a reasonable person.

Failure to comply entitles the purchaser to reject the goods and get his money back. Even if he has lost his right to reject, the buyer would still be entitled to damages.

It seems pretty cut and dried to me. Nowhere does it say the law only applies if the manufacturer agrees there is a fault and will take the set back.
 
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Elvis

Guest
No sooner had I finished typing my rant above I receive the following letter from Trading Standards which would appear to confirm my beliefs. It also adds that my Credit Card company (who were quite keen to wriggle off the hook) are also complicit in this. Letter attached below (details edited).

Dear Mr X

Thank you for your recent e-mail concerning a defective television purchased from the Cheadle branch of John Lewis.

Your contract with the store is governed by The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) which requires that the item in question be of satisfactory quality (free from defect and durable), fit for the purpose and as described. If any one of these conditions is breached then, provided that the fault is not of your own making, you are entitled to damages. These vary in nature according to the length of time that has elapsed since purchase: within three to four weeks of acquiring the goods, you would be entitled to reject (ie to claim a full refund). Beyond that period, a lasting repair or, unless disproportionate, a replacement would be in order. If the fault is attributable to misuse or fair wear and tear, however, no liability is attached to the retailer.

Within six months of the date of purchase, there is a legal presumption that any fault that comes to light was present at the time of sale. The onus is upon the retailer to demonstrate otherwise.

You might try writing to the trader, reiterating your statutory rights, specifying the remedy required (repair or replacement) and stipulating a deadline for action. If neither solution proves possible, you would be justified in claiming monetary damages - the original cost minus an appropriate deduction for usage.

As the purchase was made via credit card and as the full price exceeded £100, Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 renders the finance provider "jointly and severally liable" for any breach. From a practical point of view, therefore, you should write to the card company enclosing a copy of your letter to John Lewis together with an appropriately worded covering note.

Launching a small claim in the county court is the ultimate sanction available to you.

Should you require further clarification, please contact me - either via e-mail or by telephone.

Yours sincerely,

Consumer Adviser


I rest my case

:lesson:
 

MAW

Banned
Just as we all thought and hoped, then. It's something that is foremost in my mind when I'm making a sale these days, fit for purpose. Lost a sale recently cos he wanted a Denon 3803 and Kef Eggs. I told him he'd blow them to bits...
 

michael6

Active Member
David

Thanks for the suggestion I had actually thought of asking JL to conduct an independent examination of my screen but thought it may be a waste of time as they will only listen to Hitachi's expert!.

After all the service agent who first inspected my screen agreed it
was faulty.

MAW

Also thanks for your input when you speak to these people who continue to come up with every excuse you could imagine i.e. 'turn up your lighting' you do begin to wonder if it is worth it.

Elvis

Thanks for all the information, I will also be taking this further with JL as you say it would be pointless to take issue with Hitachi, they could not give a toss about a few unhappy customers.

I will keep you updated.

Michael
 

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