1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Plasma - dark area noise/dots

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by bongpig, Jan 11, 2004.

  1. bongpig

    bongpig
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Ive been reading with interest the Panny6 blacks thread below.
    Could I ask P6 owners with the noisey dot problem whether they own the black or silver models?

    Ive seen this moving dot issue with just about all plasmas, but not in any kind consistency. Ive been to stores, with 20 plasmas all on the same feed. Some sets have to dot problem much worse than others.... however, at another store with the same models, sets that looked great before, now have the moving dots ... and vice versa.

    Even I had a plasma I sent back because the darks were so noisy I couldnt bear it. I believe in a another house/location, the results would have been different.

    Surely there must be outside factors that affect the displays? Mains noise? Interference?

    How else could we explain several users with the same screen having various degrees of this noise/dot probem?

    Im beginning to think the commercial screens are more prone to this noise problem, but have no firm statistics.

    So, consumer and commercial owners .... what kinds of display are you getting?
     
  2. Messiah

    Messiah
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    7,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +339
    IT could be a s simple as the way they are set up. I know on pjs the gamma settings can have a major influence on noise in dark areas and most can be adjusted (through setup menus) to reduce or eliminate it.

    Just a thought.
     
  3. daveb975

    daveb975
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,821
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +242
    I have the noise within dark areas, and I have the black, commercial Panny 6.

    I am not convinced there is too much of a difference as I have seen this on the silver ones as well.
     
  4. cybersoga

    cybersoga
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,628
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +25
    If you can see the dots, your too close. It's just a fact that plasmas Dither the blacks because they can't produce shades of almost black any other way. They also switch pixels on and off at different frequencies to make them look dimmer to produce more shades. It looks worse if the brightness and gamma is not adjusted correctly.
     
  5. bongpig

    bongpig
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The experience I had with a plasma screen, was bad enough to be visible from 7-8ft. The display simply looked noisy, like a poor tv reception ( even though it was actually playing a dvd ).

    I could understand how carefull adjustments to the Contrast and gamma settings would help, but it still doesnt quite add up.

    Ive read in another thread that moving boards from one slot to another on a Panny6, helps eliminate this problem. Thats without any adjustments to the display, just switching slots.

    Why would that be? Theres more going on with these displays than my brain can handle i think! I wish I knew more about electrics and magnetic fields and the like.
     
  6. cybersoga

    cybersoga
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,628
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +25
    What you were seeing was probably poor source material with a badly adjusted display, displays in shops are rarely displaying anything like what the screens are capable of.
     
  7. daveb975

    daveb975
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,821
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +242
    I have been running minve on a low contrast/brightness setting as I am still within the first 100 hours of use.

    What settings would people recommend to eliminate this?

    I find it more of a problem when the plasma is trying to display large blocks of lighter colour eg a bright blue sky than the darker colours.
     
  8. bongpig

    bongpig
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Like I said previously, I can understand how badly adjusted sets could highlight this problem. But this isnt the end of the problem 100%.
    Ive seen enough posts from people here and other forums, suggesting that no amount of screen adjustment would kill the noisy dot problem, yet others tweek the gamma and contrast a bit and get rid of it.

    Its clear theres more to this dot issue than simply bad settings. The same TV in several different homes seem to give different results.

    I had a technical engineer who carry's out warrenty fixes/replacements tell me that in one example, swapping the fans inside the plasma for other models, killed the noise problem completely.
    Others claim simply moving the hardware from slot to slot on a Panny6 kills the problem.
    I dont see what these solutions has to do with settings.

    Its all very well the people with no problems at all, posting saying outright that the TV is badly set up. This isnt always the case. That much is clear.

    Obviously im not going to get to the bottom of this, and so am not going to buy another plasma. Im too woriied that ill get a great screen home, only to have a noisy picture, even though it looked fine in the demo.
     
  9. Messiah

    Messiah
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    7,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +339
    Are you sure he wasn't talking about sound noise? I'm sure when he says about replacing fans he must have gotten the wrong end of the stick.

    I have a Pioneer plasma (4th gen) and experience nothing at all like yu are sayig above, even on poor(er) quality terrestrial feed. DVD images are just jaw dropping.
     
  10. bongpig

    bongpig
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    No, im talking about picture noise.
     
  11. Messiah

    Messiah
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    7,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +339
    OK. I realised you were just wondering if the engineer was as many people also complainabout 'sound' noise from some plasmas due to the fans.
     
  12. Messiah

    Messiah
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2002
    Messages:
    7,529
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Ratings:
    +339
    OK. I realised you were, but wondering if the engineer was as many people also complain about 'sound' noise from some plasmas due to the fans.
     
  13. bongpig

    bongpig
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yea. I guess I should have been clearer.
    I was speaking to a guy at Russ Andrews earlier, who also told me the same thing, hence why they insist quality mains cables can make a big difference in some cases.
     
  14. FaxFan2002

    FaxFan2002
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2003
    Messages:
    2,098
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Andover
    Ratings:
    +109
    It seems they are two "kinds" of noisy dots.

    The first only visible from 2 - 3 ft away and can be tuned away to a certain extent by playing with the contrast etc.

    The other kind (which I had) is visible from far away (in my case 12ft) - same kind of dots but on a much grander scale. I did move the board inbetween slots, but I suspect the board just need re-seating into it's slot properly (pulling component cables in & out seemed to have loosened the card).

    By the way - the 2nd kind of dots were NOT visible on the VGA input at all, but if you look closely the first are.

    The conclusion I have reached is that the first type of dots are normal "noise" from the display and can be tuned away - how I suspect depends on how you connect devices etc.
    The second would appear when there is a loose connection causing more that the normal amount of "noise" on the screen.
     
  15. manc

    manc
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    Messages:
    150
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have found this problem to be twice as bad using composite inputs on my 400e.
     
  16. jmack

    jmack
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    some one on the avs forums has been talking about how he sees this effect on his nec. he calls them like fire flies .

    maybe its more widespread than first thought, or ment to be there,
     
  17. daveb975

    daveb975
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    3,821
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +242
    In the latest edition of Home Cinema Choice, they review the 50" Panny 6, and note that 'green/grey pixel noise is almost non existent.'

    Perhaps this is something that affects the SD panels more than the HD ones?
     
  18. bongpig

    bongpig
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    ... or affects class A ( commercial ) panels more than class B (consumer)?
     

Share This Page

Loading...