PJ time

DLxP

Well-known Member
I figured I'd start a new thread, seeing as my room is going to be completely different to that detailed in my previous thread!

The room is a living room, measuring 5.5m * 4m. Until recently, I was sitting along the width of the room watching a 65" LGC9, like so:



While that was pretty awesome, I've decided to go back to a projector-based set up. The 65" OLED was great, but I miss the impact you can only really get when watching on a big screen. We never watch TV during the day anyway, and only ever watch movies/streaming services, so having a screen in the living room that recedes during the day when not in use should work well for us.

I'm also reorienting the room, so that we sit along the length. With the previous arrangement, surround backs didn't work - they were too easy to localise at around 60cm distance. This time, the room layout will be like this:


[red cross = me; blue line = screen; blue circles = ceiling speakers]

This is far less compromised from an audio perspective and allows me to follow the Dolby Atmos spec. You can see the above diagram is for 7.1.4, but (knowing my habits) that will almost certainly eventually end up as at least 7.2.6.

The only reason we didn't have this layout previously was that the log burner meant the OLED would have had to be off to the right of it. With a motorised pj screen, that isn't an issue, as it can overlap the log burner (which won't be in use with the screen down).

This layout also also gives me enough throw distance for the pj to comfortably fill a 110" scope screen (from experience, I prefer CIH). I've gone with an Epson TW9400, which should be up this time next week.

Seeing as I'm changing the TV, I figured I'd try different speakers too.:) My previous set up comprised mainly ATC speakers, with the SCM40v2 as mains. After much reflection and research, I decided to replace my speakers with Revel speakers. I've always wanted to try them (in fact nearly bought some before going with ATCs). The ATCs were amazing, but, having lived with Revels as mains for a few days, I very much prefer them.

The set up now comprises:

Mains: Revel F206
Centre: Revel C208
Sides: Revel S16
Backs: JBL Arena 120
Atmos: ?
Sub: Arendal Sub 3

Each of these measure outstandingly well. The centre's a bit of a beast too. It's arriving next week. :D

The first challenge was this glass panelled door, to the right of the screen (pictured with my old ATC surrounds):

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Glass next to a pj screen is a definite no-no…

So I decided to cover the glass with some fancy looking panels, that won't reflect light back onto the screen.

First, some MDF cut to size:

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Then some foam, covered with anthracite Alcantara:

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Any hey presto, upholstered Alcantra door panels:

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You can see where one of the F206s is in that pic. Like I said, I've lived with these for a while now and I can barely stop grinning when listening to them! They sound incredible. Super detailed with a massive soundstage. I also think they're rather nice to look at...

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I've only been listening to the system in stereo so far, as I won't have the surround set up running until the projector is up. That said, I've wired in the surrounds. Revel S16 side surrounds:

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More to follow...
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
I've moved my electronics outside the room too, behind this bookcase (shown in the previous layout):

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And I've finally decided to invest in a rack, which is looking a bit too empty right now...

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beechy06

Well-known Member
Those floorstanders look fantastic, must admit not a brand I know but clearly must have a lot going for them given the ATC’s you was running previously. Do they need plenty of room to breathe?

Look forward to seeing pics of the full finished room once complete!
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
Those floorstanders look fantastic, must admit not a brand I know but clearly must have a lot going for them given the ATC’s you was running previously. Do they need plenty of room to breathe?
They're an American brand with quite a following over there. Harman's 'luxury audio' speakers. Floyd Toole used to work for them, so they're designed very much in line with his research - i.e. very neutral in-room response. Apparently they blind test all Revel models against price comparable competitors and won't release speakers unless they reliably win the blind tests. I've read that the (£££) Revel Salon 2 is unbeaten in such tests.

I'm surprised they don't have more interest over here TBH, as they're intended to work as well for hi-fi as for home cinema, hence their C208 beast of a centre. Can't wait for that to arrive next week! I've been happily running without a centre for a while, but in this orientation with the projector, and with other people sitting significantly off-axis, I think one's needed.

I wouldn't say the F206s are head and shoulders above the SCM40s though. I could happily have lived with the 40s, which certainly have some magic about them. They were very hard to fault, with a midrange to die for. Ironically though, contrary to what most reviews say about them, I found them a little laid back, which the 206s are anything but.

The 206s don't need room to breath as such, other than the obvious bass issues with corner placement, which can be EQ'd easily (and creates extra headroom). The side-wall reflections are factored into their design so aren't problematic. They have a very similar off-axis response to their on-axis sound, so reflections simply help expand the soundstage. These three unsmoothed curves show their response up to 30 degrees off-axis:

1602022485802.png

Like I say, the off-axis sound is very similar to the direct sound.

This is their listening window (again unsmoothed), which is the average of the on-axis and 15 degrees off-axis vertically and horizontally:

1602022556325.png


So, extremely neutral. More or less as good as it gets really, other than <100Hz (in an anechoic chamber). Other measurements here.

The drop off below 100Hz in the anechoic chamber won't be the case in-room. Still, I cross them over at 60Hz at the mo, so the Sub 3 does the rest. :D
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
While I'm sharing measurements, for completeness, here are the surround backs (as shared in my old thread):
1602024638400.png

Here's the centre. Amazing bass response for a sealed design! Also, crucially, it's a 3-way not a MTM/D'Appolito design, so it won't suffer off-axis like MTM designs do.

1602025025756.png


I haven't seen any measurements for the S16 surrounds though, but they likely measure similar to the M16 bookshelf equivalents.

And of course, the Sub 3:

1602025085650.png



As you can see, I'm focusing the system heavily in favour of neutrally designed speakers with good off-axis performance, and all with a very similar response. That means I can focus room eq on the bass/modal issues, and leave everything above 1kHz (at the upper limit) to do its thing.
 

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mb3195

Distinguished Member
Looking great mate, I’m sure you’ll be happy to have a PJ back again, TVs just don’t offer the same movie experience.

New speakers look fab 👍🏻

Looking forward to seeing more updates.
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
Hi can i ask what made you swap from the m&k speakers to the revels
I actually switched from the M&K to the ATCs, then from the ATCs to the Revels.

The reason I switched from the M&Ks in the first place was I had on-wall versions that wouldn't work when I moved into a different room, after moving house.

That said, M&Ks are great speakers. I've had a few different M&Ks and rate them highly.
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
Looking great mate, I’m sure you’ll be happy to have a PJ back again, TVs just don’t offer the same movie experience.

New speakers look fab 👍🏻

Looking forward to seeing more updates.
Cheers!

Yea, I had a bit of a debate with myself about it as the 65C9 is a killer TV. Ultimately though, I knew I wanted a massive projected image.

The room's going to be a bit of a challenge for a projector, as it's fairly light-walled, but I reckon I can overcome some of that. A lot of the wall is covered in grey curtains, so that'll help.
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
Can you persuade the other half of the aesthetic benefits of dark velvet curtains or panels 😬
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
I figured I'd start a new thread, seeing as my room is going to be completely different to that detailed in my previous thread!
I'm in!

I'm also reorienting the room, so that we sit along the length. With the previous arrangement, surround backs didn't work - they were too easy to localise at around 60cm distance.
Was that with 5.1, 7.1, or some Atmos?

This time, the room layout will be like this:

I think it would work better with the Atmos speakers brought in a little (so all closer to each other). That would help keep them separate from the side surrounds, and make it clearer when sounds are supposed to be overhead. If possible, I think it would be good to do the same with the rears - bring them a little closer to each other, so similar reasons.

You can see the above diagram is for 7.1.4, but (knowing my habits) that will almost certainly eventually end up as at least 7.2.6.
I really can't see the point in 6 Atmos for a single row cinema unless you've done everything else you can, and just want more (and even then I wouldn't bother). I'd go to 2, 3, 4 subs first, and also front wides.
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
Can you persuade the other half of the aesthetic benefits of dark velvet curtains or panels 😬
She's surprisingly tolerant of my AV hobby, but that might be a tipping point! TBH, I'm fairly fussy with aesthetics so that wouldn't work. It's one of the reasons painting the room darker is out of the question.

I have actually been toying with the idea of making some sort of removeable tent/shroud type of thing out of Devore, but that's very much an 'if all else fails' idea.

The immediate right of the screen has the door panels pictured above, which are good at light rejecting. The immediate left is a grey curtain, and a soon-to-be-filled patch of white wall, and the floor in front has a grey rug. So I may get away a white screen in here. I'll find out tomorrow when it goes up. If that doesn't work, I'll replace it with an ALR screen.

Was that with 5.1, 7.1, or some Atmos?
Various iterations. I tried 7.1.4 but removed the surround backs as they were too obvious, so ended up with 5.1.4. The .4 were front heights and rear heights, rather than on the ceiling above me.


I think it would work better with the Atmos speakers brought in a little (so all closer to each other). That would help keep them separate from the side surrounds, and make it clearer when sounds are supposed to be overhead. If possible, I think it would be good to do the same with the rears - bring them a little closer to each other, so similar reasons.
Good suggestion - I might actually do that with the Atmos channels. The diagram's based on the Dolby guidelines but they're fairly flexible anyway.

I can't move the rears any further in as there's a door/curtains in the way. You can see them below, with the black grilles (soon to be replaced by DIY white grilles).

1602415508490.png


I really can't see the point in 6 Atmos for a single row cinema unless you've done everything else you can, and just want more (and even then I wouldn't bother). I'd go to 2, 3, 4 subs first, and also front wides.
Yea, I'd certainly get more subs before adding 2 more Atmos channels. That said, I've got 14 power amp channels, so it'd be rude not to use them somehow!

I'd agree with you on wides being preferable too - I'm just not sure how to fit them in. The sofa on my left is in the way there (and that patch of wall is going to have something hanging there soon):

1602415099449.png


And on the right, there's a door:

1602415138828.png


That said, I might be able to fit in something discreet at some point. Not for a while though - the number of visible speakers is at its domestically acceptable limits for now!
 

Triggaaar

Distinguished Member
Good suggestion - I might actually do that with the Atmos channels. The diagram's based on the Dolby guidelines but they're fairly flexible anyway.
Yeah I will be bringing mine in a little. I know what Dolby suggest, but the advice I've read which has made the most sense to me suggests bringing them in a bit. If your side walls are a long way away, then I think it's less necessary, but for my layout, and yours I think, bringing them in a little will help.

I can't move the rears any further in as there's a door/curtains in the way. You can see them below, with the black grilles (soon to be replaced by DIY white grilles).
Well that's where they go then :)

Yea, I'd certainly get more subs before adding 2 more Atmos channels. That said, I've got 14 power amp channels, so it'd be rude not to use them somehow!
And processing?

I'd agree with you on wides being preferable too - I'm just not sure how to fit them in. The sofa on my left is in the way there
They go above the sofa.
(and that patch of wall is going to have something hanging there soon):
Yeah, a speaker!
And on the right, there's a door:
Yeah that's a little tight, but looking at your diagram I guess it would work. However, with only one row of seating, I'd think they're nice to have, rather than essential. But still ahead of 6 Atmos speakers for me.

That said, I might be able to fit in something discreet at some point. Not for a while though - the number of visible speakers is at its domestically acceptable limits for now!
Yeah if it's not a dedicated room, and has to double as a living room, you've done well to get what you have.
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
Yeah I will be bringing mine in a little. I know what Dolby suggest, but the advice I've read which has made the most sense to me suggests bringing them in a bit. If your side walls are a long way away, then I think it's less necessary, but for my layout, and yours I think, bringing them in a little will help.

Well that's where they go then :)

And processing?

They go above the sofa.
Yeah, a speaker!
Yeah that's a little tight, but looking at your diagram I guess it would work. However, with only one row of seating, I'd think they're nice to have, rather than essential. But still ahead of 6 Atmos speakers for me.

Yeah if it's not a dedicated room, and has to double as a living room, you've done well to get what you have.
Processing is Denon AVC-X4700 run in pre-amp mode. I'll probably change at some point if/when I need more than 11 channels.
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
More or less finished modifying the cabinet to accommodate and hide the centre speaker.

First I removed the doors from a Habitat Max sideboard. This is what it used to look like (pictured in my old layout):

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I then reinforced it with a bit of MDF:

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Drilled a hole for speaker wire and added in some dense blocks, which will be the basis of my centre speaker stand:

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Built a frame for some speaker fabric and painted it:

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And the finished article:

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I've also installed a Hue lightstip behind. Pretty happy with how it turned out :thumbsup:

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DLxP

Well-known Member
The centre has arrived.

I said it was a beast right? Well, that's almost an understatement! It makes my floorstanders look small by comparison.

Haven't hooked it up yet, but very much looking forward to that...

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DLxP

Well-known Member
Posting that pic's made me realise there's a slight gap down the left hand side of the fabric front of the cabinet ... will have to sort that out tonight when I install the centre.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I need some home decor advice from you. Fantastic!
 

IWC Dopplel

Well-known Member
Great job, the unit blends very well
 

DLxP

Well-known Member
Centre's all wired in and in the cabinet!

1602794957930.png


One of the benefits of the C208 is you can set it to 'boundary' when it's situated in a cabinet like this:

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I also tidied up my rack a bit. Still need to get some blanking plates, which should arrive in the next couple of days.

The bottom amp's redundant at the moment, but I'll be using that for Atmos in the coming month or so.

The gap at the bottom will be filled next month when I get my hands on a PS5. :D

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I ran Audyssey, limited it to 500Hz, and left it at that. I still need to dial in the bass to add in my preferred curve, but other than that it sounds really, really good.
 

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Tom @ Cinehome

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
I really like the fact that you have such a keen eye for visual detail, attention to detail and design. So often overlooked.
 

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