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PJ or Plasma ???? aarrgghh

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by originalbadboy, Apr 2, 2003.

  1. originalbadboy

    originalbadboy
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    Hi all,

    I have a dilemma ... its quite a simple one really ... PJ or Plasma ??

    My current living quarters is a 11ft long bedroom, and I am having trouble deciding what to do.

    Money is no object :)p), or at least if I end up spending a few grand, its not a problem.

    I will be using a HTPC as my DVD player, and eventually getting a cheap and nasty amp & speakers. I will also be hooking up Gamecube and Xbox as well ...

    Obviously going down the Plasma route is going to cost more money, but that is not my main concern, my main concern with plasma are, relialbility, PQ and lip sync issues etc ..

    Looking at the PJ route, this will obviuosly be a cheaper option, (AE100 for 800 quids , AE300 for 1500).

    But there are a couple of reasons why I dont want to go dont this route either:

    I dont have an option to ceiling mount the projector , and there is no practical way of floor mouting that I can see, which leaves wall mounting on the rear wall of the bedroom. With the AE300 that could be tricky because of the fan's being at the back of the unit. I have seen some people talk about TV Shelf's , but I dont think they will go out far enough ...

    The other issue with a PJ I have, is that all roughly 10ft, the screen size is going to be a bare min of 60". The viewing distance will probably around 7 - 8 ' , which I think is going to be too close ....

    Someone please decide for me ..... arrrghhhhh ...

    TIA
     
  2. John_N

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    Horses for courses.

    Projectors are more suitable for a truly cinematic experience. They give a larger image and tend to be more immersive for video. A 42" screen can not really compare.

    But they have disadvantages - you need light control to cut out ambient light - because you can't watch a projector in bright ambient light such as sunlight. You also tend to get some fan noise from a projector which varies from model to model (some models like the NEC HT1000 are virtually silent).

    A Plasma is more useable if you just want a flat TV set. It's easy to use, easy to set up, looks and acts like a TV. You're never going to recreate a trip to the movies - but you may not want that.

    Plasma is not obviously going to be more expensive. There are projectors out there that dwarf the cost of a plasma believe me.

    If you have an 11 foot long room, you could mount a sony HS10 (long throw) on the wall and end up with an image that will fill an 80" screen (180cm * 102cm). I know this because I've done it.

    A sony HS10 will cost you £2200.

    If you want to spend a bit more, then the NEC HT1000, Epson TW100, Sony VPL-WV12HT are all good units at around the £3000 to £3500 mark.

    If money really was no object then you wouldn't use a cheap and nasty sound system or a cheap projector. I deduce that money really IS an object. So what's your budget and what do you want out of it?

    John
     
  3. originalbadboy

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    To be honest ... I want both ... I want a Plasma , cos I want to 'get with it' technology wise, and I want to replace my aging, 24" sony CRT. I also want the 'Cinema Experience' as well.

    At the moment I live at home, but hopefully will be getting a house some time this year, so the way I figured it , if I get a plasma now , I can then buy a PJ later, when I have more options (space wise),

    or conversely .. I could get a PJ now, squeeze it into my bedroom (somehow) , it would cost me less money (IF I buy a Panny), and worry about the plasma later ...

    I dont really want to spend more than £3.5K (that includes AMP & Speakers, cables etc) , and I could just about get a Plasma with that, but its a lot of money to spend on basically a large monitor.

    Whereas, if I get a Panny PJ , I could do it for a lot less, more like £2.5K , and although a grand isnt a huge amount of money to me at the moment (I have quite a bit saved up for buying a house), a grand is still a grand ...

    I am leaning more towards Plasma all the time, ... and I KNOW it would be the easier option of the two , I just wanted to bounce the idea off you guys ....
     
  4. John_N

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    Personally I would leave the plasma because it currently is overpriced.

    I remember when they came out at £16,000 for a 42" panel.

    The cheapest you can buy them now is around £2200 I think for a 42" panel. The weight is significant and if it isn't your house then you might want to think about whether it's fair to trash the walls with metal plasma brackets.

    I personally would buy a cheap projector and project onto a painted wall since it's a temporary system and buy a plasma when the prices reach a more realistic level.

    At the end of the day, a plasma is just a flat consumer TV and in order to enter the mass market which the manufacturers would like, they are going to need to reduce the cost further since even £2.2K is more than more people will pay for what is basically a TV.

    J
     
  5. originalbadboy

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    arrggh ... Dont say that ... !


    I dont really mind paying 2K plus for a plasma TV , I have seen some of them running, and they look lush .. The Panny models are nice , and reasonably affordable .. and I am the sort of person who likes having 'new' technology ..

    besides the largest CRTS are 36" , and they cost 2K .. (mostly) so , there isnt much difference there , and a Plasma is a hell of a lot lighter than a CRT!

    Also I wouldnt wall mount the Plasma If I got one, I would just get a TV equipment stand , and put it on that ...

    Also If I get a PJ , I still need to be able to mount it somewhere , and if I get an AE300 (which is what I was leaning to) , it would not be able to be mounted against the back wall, it maybe worth researching some of the other simliar priced PJ's available , and see if they are better equiped to be back wall mounted , and whether they have different 'throw' distances ...

    Cheers,

    Anybody else with any thoughts ... matt (matt800).. come on mate , you always have something to say on any subject
     
  6. John_N

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    It sounds like you've made your mind up to be honest.

    If you want a telly and don't mind paying inflated prices at the expense of your house fund then buy a plasma.

    If you want a theatrical experience for possibly less with a cheapish projector then buy a projector .

    At the end of the day if you don't mind me saying so it sounds like you're more interested in the gadget value of the plasma that anything else. I wouldn't place a premium on the "new technology" part because to be honest it's old technology now and lots of people have them. I was thinking of buying one to put in the kitchen.

    To be perfectly honest if you are buying a house later this year then neither would be on my list of priorities right now. This sounds like your first house and believe me the costs will be more than you can possibly imagine.


    J
     
  7. originalbadboy

    originalbadboy
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    Thats why I want to get some of this stuff now ..... while I can still afford it ! ...

    I understand what you are saying John (and I agree , partly) , but Plasma's are not THAT expensive when compared to CRT's, and although my priority should be to my 'house' fund ... I need to spend some wonga .. It's burning a large hole in my pocket ...

    bugger .... still dont know what to do .... maybe I will sit on it for a couple of months ... and see what happens to the prices of houses ....
     
  8. John_N

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    I don't agree - I think that plasma screens are ridiculously expensive compared to CRT.

    If you look at the price of 28" CRT screens, you pay about £500 or about £17 per inch

    If you look at 32" CRT displays you pay about £700 so £31 per inch.

    If you look at the cheapest 42" plasma you pay around £2500 including VAT so £60 per inch rising to £3500 or £83 per inch.

    Now we are ignoring manufacturing costs here, but basically people who buy plasma now are "early adaptors" and are paying through the pricing for the setup and fabrication facilities that the manufacturers had to invest in.

    When colour TV was first brought out, no-one had one because a colour TV cost as much as a car... Notice any similarities with that and the initial £16,000 plasma cost?

    Eventually, plasma costs WILL come down further. Whether you think that £2500 to £3000 is good value for a 42" picture depends I suppose on your outlook.

    Projectors have been mainstream for longer because of the business projector market. This has driven prices down but it has taken a while. Eventually, when large screen flat panel monitors really take off, the same will probably happen to LCD and plasma TV - it has happened already to some extent - some time ago a 21" monitor was around £1000 - whereas now you can get a 21" CRT for considerably less and when adjusted for inflation the price has dropped by about 5 times.

    As for money burning a hole in your pocket... Well - maybe you don't need the house badly enough then... In my last house move, the various fees and solicitors costs ALONE came to £50,000. .. Plus you then spend thousands on decorating and DIY...

    If I was you I wouldn't waste my money right now, and if you must get a solution, then I still think a cheapish projector projecting onto a white wall is a better solution because it's more portable, lighter, can be moved room to room easily and can display a range of image sizes from 50" to 120" depending on where it is and how you feel. Plus its virtually invisible when turned off rather than a rather unattractive slab of metal and plastic stuck in the middle of the floor.

    At the end of the day though, trouble with these forums is that if someone asks a question and then doesn't like the answer, no end of arguing will convince them... You can never convince someone of anything against their will.

    It's your money - you make the decision :)

    J
     
  9. loonatic

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    Well speaking as someone who has both :D I'd say that you can't really compare the two.

    I too only have a small room, approx 3.2m x 3.2m square.

    For example watching East Enders on a 70" screen projected from my Sony HS10 sounds better than it is in reality - watching the same show on my 43" plasma on the other hand is outstanding...when set-up correctly I might add, but that applies to the projector also.

    Turn this around however and watching T2 on the projector is a much more immersing experience than on the plasma.

    Also, the plasma is more convenient, for me anyway. If you just want to watch the news or something you don't need to faff around with the projector just switch on the plasma as you would any other TV.

    My main concerns with the plasma are that only produce a good image with a good source. I have no problem with lip-sync but I am concerned about screen burn especially when I have had my PC hooked up to it or when playing on the PS/2.

    I will agree with John though about the price of plasma displays. I paid 4.5k for my Pioneer and I’m damn sure that if I want to sell it in a couple of years time I will only get a fraction of that cost price back. In fact it has already dropped a couple of hundred pounds since I bought it 3 months ago.

    In the end I think you have to decide if you want a big TV or the full cinema experience. Personally I think I would buy a projector for movies/games and stick with your old Sony for watching TV.

    Also, if you plan to use your PC with the projector then seriously look into the HS10.

    Hope that helps and good luck.

    Cheers, Lee.
     
  10. vulkan75

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    HEY!:eek:

    I WOULD GO FOR THE PROJECTOR..WHY?

    Simply there awesome.

    I have a hs10 and it is truly fab.

    80"From yr throw distance:D

    now imagine----------all at rescaled res on your hcpc

    80" unrealtournament.
    80" movies
    80" football matches
    80" mtv
    80" any tv
    80" web surfing
    80" video conferance
    80" lalalaalalalalalalalalalalaal
    i can go on? no ok.

    But the point is a plasma is just a tv????

    I have an lcd tv(which i may add takes up a large chunk of the jap market at the mo(the birth place of technology)and the visitors to my house all prefer the projector........It has the wow factor.

    so in my veiw this is what you should do!

    Buy a hs10 connect it to yr hcpc.

    with the money you save forget the x box and buy an electric screen with and ir relay.

    then buy a pronto pro(seeing as money is no option) and have your screen drop down by remote control:D

    Then when yr in your new house buy an lcd ahahahaahaha:laugh: .

    ps when i was at the sound and vision show this year in Bristol.

    i observed a shocking fact of plasma.

    if you want a decent one then you need to expand your budget,cos the cheaper ones all display the lowest res that plasma does. and its quite poor realy considering yr paying 2-3k.

    And the pictures on the more expensive models!!!!!!!a hundread times better than the cheapies.

    Anyway nice dilema to have huh1:smashin:

    have fun deciding:hiya: :eek:
     
  11. LJT

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    Original bad boy. I shared your dilema and eventually I choose the Panny 100 as a kind of stop gap. My rational is this. The plasma screens offer a very good quality robust image for a very long convenient time. There's no worries about fans or filters. You can watch the thing in a sensible level of ambient light. There's no deterioration of image due to ingress of muck and dirt into the pj's optical; system. In addition there's no major drop off in light as there is with a lamp that's very expensive to replace. This of course is usually after a couple of thousand hours, but by then the thing will be so caked up with muck you'll have to sped a futher large chunk of money having the thing cleaned. Even then the poarising lenses would have burnt due to the excessive amounts of heat in the bloody thing. That in turn is due to the unit's vain effert to stay cool and then suck copius amount of grime through it;s inadequate filter. The Plasma will last three to four times longer than the PJ as well as running virtually maintenance free. Any loss of brightness will be a slow linear process not the bleedin ups and downs of a PJ.

    As I said at the beginning of this rant Ichoose the panny as a stop gap. I'm hoping the plasma's will advance apace become larger,better and cheaper. Only then and only then when that day shall pass, will I be able to use the loo why the thing is on and not feel the enormous worry of a £300.00 lamp brning itself to death whilst I answer a call of nature.
    Also with a plasma, it will stop dead immediatley those stupid friends and family members who think that they are the first people ever on this planet to make those ridiculously pathetic animal and v sign shadows on your screen as your precious lamps life burns away, as you get increasingly wound up at their abject stupidity. Another thing is you can smoke use deoderant sprays ,cook , even have a roaring log/coal fire with a plasma. Not I'm afraid with a PJ, as the little devil will act as a holiday cover for your chimney.

    Rant officially over......
     
  12. Ice

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  13. loonatic

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    Ice,

    I was not commenting on the picture quality more the thought of seeing Pat Butcher's face on that size of screen - any size of screen is bad enough!! What I was trying to say was that some things are more suited to being watched on a smaller screen whereas movies are more suited to larger screens for that cinematic experience.

    Seriously though, the PQ from my Sky+ box via S-Video into my HS10 is not the best but I did watch The 5th Element on it the other day and it was more than watch able. I will be experimenting with Dscaler on my HTPC when I finally get around to setting it all up.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  14. LJT

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    You need a bigger image as possible to get all of Pat Butcher's earring's on screen.
     
  15. Ice

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    loonatic,

    Thanks - I'd be quite interested to hear what kind of results you got with the Dscaler on your HTPC.

    Cheers,
    Ice :cool:
     
  16. originalbadboy

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    Hmmm .... Still thinking .........


    If I can somehow get my room sorted out in such a way , so that I can mount a PJ (ceiling, or floor mount not an option), then I will go with a PJ for DVD's and Gameage ...

    If you saw the way my room was orgainised though .... more thinking required ....
     
  17. John_N

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    You can place a PJ on any piece of furniture of the requisite height. Or you could even fire a projector at a correctly placed mirror to place the image in the correct location.
     
  18. benmc

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    If you are still choosing then i would go for the projector for the simple fact that they are versatile.

    I have got an HS10 at the monent, with a 82" screen, now the wondereful thing is that if i can use a bigger room then i can get a much bigger picture, 100" lets say. and that is something that you can't do with a Plasma or CRT

    Benmc
     
  19. originalbadboy

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    Well ... I have just drawn a temporary 60" box on my wall (dont matter , im gonna paint it anyway) ... and I can just imagine what it would be like ...

    hmmmm ... Think I am going to go down the PJ route .... its looks great already ! .....

    Just gotta work out how to mount a PJ on the back wall ... TV bracket ??????
     
  20. Joe Fernand

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    John_N

    Sorry I have to ask £50K on fees... what the heck were you buying; a small town maybe!!!

    Originalbadboy

    You mention reliability in your original message - you cant really compare any current Plasma displays with current entry level projectors; just have a look at the topics of most of the threads in this forum as opposed to what you see in the Plasma forum.

    Plasma has to be one of the most stable and reliable products out there - I wish I could say the same for LCD projectors!!! (How anyone ever made a living selling PT-AE100 I will never know!).

    To your dilemma - Plasma vs. Projector
    As you are already aiming for both in your new home its not too difficult a question is it! Plasma is pretty much a plug and play technology with very little restrictions as to where you set it up and its also very easily transportable.

    Current plasma video technology is already very good and exceeds most peoples expectations.

    Projectors on the other hand take a fair bit of work to 'integrate' into your room and as you are looking at a temporary set up until you get a new home I'd be holding off until you have the new home and then look at the restrictions/dimensions of your new dedicated Home Entertainment room before choosing a projector.

    Whilst entry level projection is amazing value for money you will see many on this forum are always looking to upgrade and migrate from the £1k+ LCD models to the higher cost and specification DLP and LCD in the £4 - £10K market.

    I'd go for plasma now and have no worries about setting it up in your new home as a stand alone unit or integrated with a projector in a multi screen installation and once you have the new house then concentrate on the best projector and screen for your new room.

    You can always bump a bit extra onto the mortgage when your at it and have a decent sound system and dual output video scaler with a bit of controlled lighting and maybe a Crestron control system thrown in for good measure to create the ultimate Entertainment and Gaming room.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  21. rauer

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    Many significant properties of plasma displays and projectors have been discussed so far. For me, maybe number 1 issue seems to be whether one is willing and able to make the room dark enough.

    My 'Home Cinema' also acts as a living room. After some consideration, I ended up buying the Sanyo PLV-Z1. I'm really pleased with the image quality, even though I've been projecting on a plain wall. However, now I've come to the conclusion that I'll sell the projector and start saving for a plasma. Why? Because for me it's even in the winter time difficult to darken the living room enough and I really can't modify it to cinema use. And now the summer's coming, too. Up here (northern Finland) the summer nights are _really_ bright and I've realised that it means no summer HC for me. :(

    Just something to consider..
     
  22. John_N

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    Joe

    House buying:
    Stamp duty @ 4% , agent fees @ 2%, removal fees, solicitors fees, survey charges etc etc etc.

    Plasma:

    Useable. Bright. Easy to use. Like a TV. Heavy. Fragile. Lifetime about 30,000hrs. Sometimes calibrated badly or contrast too high basically in "self destruct " mode where lifetime severely compromised. Expensive for size.

    Projector:

    More hassle. Bigger. More immersive on movies. More hassle to integrate into the room but can be more discreet (hidden screen, hidden projector). Need black out curtains in viewing room.


    Which is best? Horses for courses. If i watched mainly TV and not many movies, I would get a plasma. Because I watch very little TV and only watch movies in the evening, projector is better for me. If I was watching TV during the day in family environment I would use a plasma.

    J
     
  23. Julia

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    My 2p:
    Is it Plasma prone to screen burn? If it is, then that's a definite minus, and with the projector you don't have such worries.
    You can also experiment with a high gain screen to increase the brightness of a projector (and then you could allow more light into the room).
    Julia
     
  24. originalbadboy

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    As far as light control is concerned, im hoping it wont be too much of an issue.

    Even on bright days, with the curtains closed, the room is fairly dark, as the sun does not shine through it until late evening.

    Also my curtains are of quite a dark colour and are pretty 'thick' so they dont seem to let much light through.

    If I find the room is still to bright, I can always get some blackout material to put behind the curtains , I am sure that would make the room very dark then.

    I actually agree with all the opinions that have been expressed on this topic, which is why I have had a difficult time deciding. I can see now though how I am going to mount the projector, and how I am going to re-arrange my room to accodate this , and it should work out perfectly by the time its finished.

    So for now, its cheap and nasty projector (probably AE300), home made screen (for movies, and Gaming), and then plasma (or LCD) later on for larger TV viewing.
     
  25. themmings

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    I wouldn't say the Panny AE300 was cheap:eek: , and I certainly wouldn't say it was nasty either.:eek:

    Timbo:D
     
  26. mwatson800

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    OBB, you certainly know how to upset the applecart there!

    As a owner of a new UK Panasonic PT-AE300 projector, I can tell you now that it would give any cheap-range (<£7000) Plasma display a run for its money! (museumsteve had one in the shop for a while before selling it up and converting to PJ)

    If you are local to Farnborough, then pop over for the real cinema experience mate and you will forget about any ideas of inadequate and expensive Plasma screens! ;)

    Matt :)
     
  27. originalbadboy

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    'handbags at dawn ..... '

    Ahh .... at the last, the great Mattious speaks ! .... Unfortunatley I dont live local to farnborough, otherwise I would have popped down to the NG shop before it closed.

    I have seen a couple of demo's of the AE100 in action, and I was inpressed by that, so I would imagine that the AE300 would be more impressive, just need to wait for a local shop to get one in. I would imagine Richer sounds or Hispek will have one soon, and they are local to me...

    I dont really want to put my money down before at least seeing one in action.

    Sorry, maybe cheap and nasty was the wrong phrase to use ...

    'cheap & lovely' should have been better .... , anyways I have 99.9% decided that for the moment PJ is the way to go, and have already started to make 'prelimery' survey's of my living quarters , as to position of furniture etc ...

    BTW ... Anybody got any comments on the Yamaha 630 amp , was thinking of getting one of those babbies ???
     

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