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Pioneer plasma PDP-503HDE progressive scan

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Kenmilton, Oct 6, 2005.

  1. Kenmilton

    Kenmilton
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    I am using a Pioneer PDP-503HDE plasma with a newly acquired Denon-A1XV multi-regional player via Component output. Whereas the Denon player offers both NTSC and PAL proscan, I find to my horror that the plasma screen will not accept PAL proscan signals (a limitation, I assume, of this particular model).

    My question is this: is it qualitatively worthwhile going through the fiddly process of changing the setup menu to Progressive every time I play an NTSC disc, or should I simply stick to Interlacing for both NTSC and PAL? Must admit that my ageing eyes cannot detect much, if any, difference but could I be missing out on something by not using NTSC proscan?

    I have also discovered that the Media receiver unit provided with the 503HDE has no connectivity for HDTV. Is there any way around this, short of investing in a new generation plasma which, I assume, would also now be able to cope with PAL proscan?
     
  2. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    I found out something very interesting about the 3rd gen Pioneers. Pull out the media box from the screen entirely (MDR and DVI leads) and jab the DVI lead straight from the panel into the DVD player set to 720p. I haven't confirmed 100% yet if the screen will run from HDCP encoded material but it will be driven directly from a video processor for sure. If it works and you like what you see (which you will) get yourself a video processor to replace the media box and run all your sources at that kind of quality!
     
  3. Kenmilton

    Kenmilton
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    Thanks very much for the suggestion, which is certainly worth thinking about. But wouldn't I lose my TV tuner if I disconnected the media receiver?
     
  4. MAW

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    Yes you would. Sky? Freeview? Liam, I suppose you were still at school when this plasma was sold! There is no HDCP I'm afraid.
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Martin: That's a bit cheeky....
    Liam suggested TRYING the Denon to see what happens. He suggested it as there are posts on the net from persons stating they have managed to feed HDMI player (think it was 868) direct to an HDE's DVI socket. Of course it may have been a non protected disc that was played but as someone claims to have got it working it's worth taking the pico second to try it....(find it hard to beleve it'll work myself but you never know)

    Ken,
    You would lose the tuner but a freeview box isn't expensive these days.

    Gordonn
     
  6. MAW

    MAW
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    It's OK, Liam and I are well used to a little banter! Have you seen the thread with the orange bars? Nobody had posted, but it's more your thing...
     
  7. Kenmilton

    Kenmilton
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    This is all fascinating, but no-one has addressed my original question about NTSC/PAL proscan! Any advice, folks?
     
  8. MAW

    MAW
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    Prog scan, yes this is a well known deficiency on the 3rd gen panels. Short of changing every time, stick with interlaced. That's a class player, the output should be good regardless. HDTV, you can buy an HDCP stripper that outputs VGA, the output will still be 1280/720, which I don't think the HDE accepts, so the only route from there is a scaler. Process the 720p HDCP to WXGA, then strip to WXGA VGA. Alternatively buy a new plasma.
     
  9. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    As gordy me boy says, I asked to TRY cos someone has claimed success with an 868 over in Americaland. Without that media box in place (and with a Freeview tuner or similar to replace) the picture improvement is far better than the loss of a few TV functions. Basically a 433MXE.

    Or buy a new plasma :D
     
  10. MAW

    MAW
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    Basically what's the point. If it was a 434 or later, the styling would sell the ide, but as the HDE looks almost exactly like an MXE... apart form the position of the buttons IRCC.
     
  11. superpixel

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    A HDE looks nothing like a MXE!

    I'd sure only want one of them on show in my home...
     
  12. Liam @ Prog AV

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    The panel only part of a 433 or 503 HDE looks the same as a silver MXE iirc. It was 434 and onward that have the nicer black finish

    The point MAW, is that if the Denon works direct to the panel the picture is better, without having to buy another panel!! Something like a Lumagen VisionDVI @ £800 is also cheaper than upgrading to a whole new 50" plasma screen but gives one massive improvement over the basic processing the 3rd gen media box can muster. Put the two together, with a HDCP stripper if required, and you've got one helluva better picture than going through the media box, but havn't had to fork out thousands for a new plasma. Plus the scaler and DVD player will be still be useful when the plasma is eventually upgraded.

    The panel alone on the 433HDE at least will accept 50Hz and 60Hz native, 50Hz and 60Hz 720p, and 50Hz and 60Hz 1080i (50Hz 1080i not too hot). Quite impressive for a plasma that was launched when I was still at school.... The current MXE1 doesn't even accept all those signals digitally, actually no current plasma does.

    If HDCP wasn't a problem (as the US chap seems to think) then it would be on paper an almost perfect plasma!! I won't be holding my breath though
     
  13. MAW

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    Liam, I think you may be jumping to conclusions about 50Hz support. Have you seen it run this? If so, you've just increased the value of a lot of people's 2nd hand plasmas!
     
  14. Liam @ Prog AV

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    I can't link to "the other place". But get over to A V T a l k and have a butchers. I asked the chap to run native, 720p and 1080i at 50 and 60 for me just so I could be sure. I also have another client running the same.

    What I can't find is a link to the US forum (don't think it was AVS) where I got the intial idea from. But that guy ran 60Hz from a PC and remarkably from his Pio 868 (hence the HDCP question). Although he never returned so I wonder if he was only seeing a splash screen on the player and assuming he had it working.

    Ken milton - if you are still here somewhere could you please let me know if the screen works with your DVD player connected directly??? Or indeed is anyone in the West Kent area with a 433 or 503HDE and I will come round and do it myself. Will at least shut MAW up :D
     
  15. Kenmilton

    Kenmilton
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    Hi Folks,

    Well, I tried connecting the Denon directly to the screen via the DVI set to 720p and, although I got a picture, it was poor - quite fuzzy - and the screen showed lots of little green phospher spots. Unless I got some setting wrong, this does not seem to be a viable setting. Test disc = LOR (R2). Sorry, Liam, think I will have to save the pennies for a new plasma!
     
  16. Liam @ Prog AV

    Liam @ Prog AV
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    LOL! Suprised you got to see an image at all, HDCP issues will usually simply give a blank screen. Thanks for trying though :thumbsup:
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Ken,

    I am moving to Surrey this week....finally installed by Thursday next week. If you are up for it I'd be interested in visiting you to try a Lumagen with your panel. I wish to confirm or deny these reports myself. Interested then drop me a line.

    Gordon@convergent-av.co.uk

    I wont be offended if you don't.....(ps. I am not trying to sell you anything....just want to see if it is actually do-able and to what degree!).

    Gordon
     
  18. MAW

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    Moving! Seriously! Welcome to stockbrokerland mate. Drop me a line when you have some time.
     
  19. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  20. Joe Fernand

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    kenmilton

    If your not seeing much of an improvement using the Deinterlacing in the Player over the PlasmaTV I'd stick with leaving the player in Interlaced mode for now and let the TV do its tricks (set it to 'Advanced Cinema' for NTSC).

    If your considering a new Display avoid one with a Media Box next time around - look to Fujitsu or Panasonic for a Plasma Display model and forgo the TV features of the newer Pioneer XDE and consider using a Video Processor in tandem with the Plasma Display.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  21. pinguino

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    I did the same thing on a PDP-433HDE. The media box still connected with the second connector but turned off. The 433 has HDCP (although Pioneer service didn't say so, in the service menu it mentioned HDCP: ON), so it works with DVI encoded HDCP input
    The disadvantage of connecting the player directly was that there is no possibility to position the image or add some overscan (some DVD's have artifacts around the edges). Also you cannot watch TV anymore.
    I now have a Pixelmagic PE1000Pro connected via the VGA input on the mediabox and I use the component output from the DVD player.
    So I have gone analog. This because the difference between the image was not noticeable to my eye. I also have more control over the image to display it the way I like (contrast, overscan etc..).

    I have one setting in the service menu of the PDP 433HDE changed. In one of the 16 screens there is a PC-mode setting that is set to 4 or 5 (low contrast) I have changed this to the same value as the VIDEO-mode setting (0).
    One additional disadvantage I have with the screen is that when I use high contrast white levels, horizontal lines appear in the white areas when these areas move (actually it is when your eyes move, the static menu's of the plasma have the same artifact if you move your eyes up and down). This is only on the PC input, don't know why the Pio has this.
    I have turned contrast on the plasma almost fully down. It gives a quiter and more stable picture this way, but I have to close the curtains during daytime.
     
  22. Liam @ Prog AV

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    Given that the Plasma Enhancer has a tuner, and it's own overscan and colour/grayscale adjustments, would it not be better to drive the panel directly via DVI than have to go through that media box???? Or does the PE not have these controls?

    I have now three clients who are doing this with Lumagen processors, which asides from not having a tuner (no biggy with Sky/Freeview) gives them all the adjustment they need.

    HDCP I still won't believe until I actually see it. Saying it in the service menu could mean anything. It could be underdeveloped software and a dead function in place for when HDCP hardware exists in the next generation or some other random reason. Stranger things have happened!!!
     
  23. pinguino

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    Yes the PE has the settings but horizontal and vertical positioning is finer (pixel) with the media box. And since I don't see any difference in picture quality I still connect through the media box.
    Some artifacts on the edges on the picture of some DVD's cannot be removed by the overscan of the PE. It removes the overscan lines but somehow leaves the first line there. Therefore I set the resolution of the picture to 1040x780 and pixel map this picture to a 1024x768 picture which results in a sort of overscan too (and I can move the picture then with the media box options menu).

    The 868 player only outputs HDMI with HDCP and doesn't output signals if the receiving end is not HDCP. Since it works with the plasma screen it must have HDCP, or at least leave the impression that it does. Either way, it functions.
     
  24. Liam @ Prog AV

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    That's good news on the 868. Although remember only with a macrovision protected disc playing is HDCP activated....
     
  25. robcornwall2003

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    Did anyone confirm whether a PDP 503HDE or 433HDE works with 720p and if so how? Thanks
     

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