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Pioneer PDP433 - HDE or MXE?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by n0bby, Apr 25, 2003.

  1. n0bby

    n0bby
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    A newbie writes...

    I'm about to pour some of my hard-borrowed into a plasma, and possibly/probably an upgrade to my current all-Sony 3-year-old-or-so DVD and receiver combo.

    I haven't thought that hard about the DVD player & receiver yet, but was pretty much set on getting the Pioneer PDP433HDE plasma.

    Then when I mentioned this in another thread in this forum, Dutch wrote: "Is there a particular reason why you're going for the HDE model? The MXE model is usually £500+ cheaper, upgradeable (with a replacement video card), PAL progressive scan compatable, and is regarded as having a better picture than the HDE."

    Is there a quick answer to why the MXE would have a better picture? It surprises me that the technology isn't identical to the HDE. So, I'd appreciate any further thoughts on this - and links to related reviews/articles on the matter would help too.

    My initial 'possibles' for receiver and DVD were Denon AVR 3803 and Pioneer DV656A. Any opinions on these would also be appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The HDE doesn't have as good video processing inside. Where as the commerical unit may be used in higher resolution applications they can DUMB down the domestic version as it's just for low res TV.......just now and they presume that most folk wont notice the issues.....

    Clever isn't it. Reduce the cost to build and put up the price!
     
  3. n0bby

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    Cuuurse them!

    Okay, supposing (and this now seems pretty certain!) I go down the MXE route, next questions are:

    What's the deal wth this 'upgradeable video card' for the screen?

    Could someone recommend some sort of tuner unit?

    To add a bit more clarity, I need to connect the following to the screen:

    DVD Player
    Sky digibox
    PAL Playstation 2
    PAL Gamecube

    And my wife will kill me if we lose the facility to tune into terrestrial news and weather at times when its not available through digi. :(
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The inout terminals on the MXE model consist of a fixed (always on) HD15 VGA STYLE SOCKET and 5BNC inputs that are only enabled when a circuit board (optional) is fitted to its secondary input terminal slot.

    This input terminal slot is what is upgredeable. Pioneer suggest you use a 5002 board from themsleves. It has component, s-video, composite inputs etc. However, they have opened up the architecture of this slot to 3rd party developers. This means that there will be a slew of optional cards available that will increase functionality and or performance of the plasma very soon.

    I'd guess that some of these cards may have on-board digital TV FTA tuners. If it's analogue news you want to see then add a cheap VCR to your sources and use it as a Tuner. It should be pretty simple to configure your system to work seamlessly from a simple touchscreen remote like a Pronto

    Gordon
     
  5. miniman

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    don't know if this is any help but, I had the same problem choice but with the 50" models. I went for the hde (mistake), lucky for me the tuner was faulty so I am sending and have decided to have it replaced by the mxe. The reason for this is as gordon said although the picture on the hde is ok you have no room to upgrade in the future(so much for pioneers claim of being future proof) but with the mxe there are plenty of upgrade cards up for grabs for you to use if and when you want. ps I'm going to use a nokia mediamaster 221t as my second tv source.
     
  6. n0bby

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    Thanks guys, all this is really helpful info.
     
  7. Costas

    Costas
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    I am not going to argue about the better video processing of the MXE over the HDE however I think that on many occasions in this forum this is overly emphasized. In my opinion the dfference is not huge at all (in what you can ultimately see) and it also reflects on the video source used and the rest of the equipment set up.

    Here are some observations that may help:
    My friend has the MXE and I have the HDE. We are both very much intereted in quality detail and have checked a number of things: He used to have an HDE and like mininman had a problem with the tuner and changed to the MXE. I got my HDE later supplied with the new tuner solely made by Pioneer. It does have a signficant improvement on the HDE compared to the earlier model. Furthermore the MXE and the HDE are both connected to a DV-757Ai DVD player (component). No matter what you do the picture is always a little better on the HDE!! Perhaps as the 757's manual claims the player has been designed around the HDE plasma?! On the contrary using the Nokia 221T the picture is slightly better on the MXE. Coming to digital free to air or sky satellite receivers the difference is very hard to see... practically none. Last thing to mention for the HDE, tuner box and DVD player: I changed the power cable to remove any RFI with the Yello Cable from Russ Andrews. It took a few weeks of "burn-in" but it was my friend how noticed the improvement first! He thought I had done some chenges in the set up.
     
  8. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Hi nobby,

    I'd just like to correct what Gordon said about the Pioneer PDA-5002 card. The card has a DVI-D input, not a component input, with S-video and composite. Unfortunately it isn't HDCP compatible - you would need one of the new third party cards for that. What outputs do your DVD player and game consoles have? The panel's HD15 VGA socket and the 5 BNC inputs can be configured to take either RGB, or component as long as a video card is fitted in the slot. You may need an RGB to VGA converter for your digibox such as those from JS Tech. Hope this helps.

    Steve
     
  9. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Thanks Steve. I was /am confused....I don't have a 5002 as I got mine without any board in case a nice shiny new type turned up:)

    Costas is correct in that you should view these things for yourself to decide on what, if any difference you see.

    Gordon
     
  10. n0bby

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    Can you recommend a site where I can read more about these new third party cards?

    The DVD has yet to be bought - at the moment it's between the Toshiba SD900e and the Pioneer DV-757Ai. The Gamecube outputs (according to a quick online check!) Component, S-Video, DVI, through an Analog or Digital AV output.
     
  11. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Hi nobby,

    For the Key Digital KD-PIO768P card look at www.keydigital.com
    For the Aurora A303-HDCP and TVP-1000+ cards look at www.auroramultimedia.com

    All these cards should be available in the next few weeks. I'm presently waiting for the Key card. :smashin:

    Steve

    P.S. I've got both of those players - I'd recommend the 757! :smoke:
     
  12. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    You can read about them in the plasma section at www.avsforum.com

    Do a search for "Key Digital" or "Aurora"

    Gordon
     
  13. n0bby

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    Cheers Gordon. It'd be interesting to do a study to see whether it really is a fact that the more nerdy the forum, the worse the colour scheme. ;)
     
  14. n0bby

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    Steve, what could you possibly want with two DVD players!? Actually I notice the Tosh is getting on a bit now - reviews seem to date from around Feb 01. Is the Pioneer better simply because it's newer tech?
     
  15. miniman

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    I've got the 757 and I am very happy with it, but the best way to find the player for you is get a short list together an try and get demos, don't be rushed and take lots of films you have seen before, trust your eyes only.
    As for the tv I'm sure both units are ok, and I must say having used the hde for a couple of months its the best tv I've had, BUT I Still found myself saying 'what can I do to get a better picture' and from the qestions I've asked people the answer was not a lot, but with the mxe at least I have a better choice.
     
  16. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Hi nobby,

    2? Well... I've got 3 actually!:blush: My first was an imported region 1 Panasonic A-310 back in '98, which doesn't get much use these days. I bought the 900 for the progressive scan and DVD-Audio, but I'm still waiting for them to release some decent DVD-A titles! :suicide: I bought an SDI-modded 757 a few months ago to go into a 433MXE with a Key card. Unfortunately they decided to change the specs on the card and changed the SDI input for another DVI-HDCP socket. I've heard that they are working on an SDI-DVI adapter now.

    I think the picture from the 757 beats the 900 plus it also has Firewire audio outputs and also features SACD aswell as DVD-A. The 900 certainly beats the 757 on build quality, but the 757 is no lightweight and feels very well made. It is available for £600 MR from www.leconcepts.com and a PAL ps firmware upgrade has been rumoured.

    Steve
     
  17. miniman

    miniman
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    Dutch where did you get your 757 modded any idea if a dvi mod will be available or any news on pal prog upgade?
     
  18. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Hi miniman,

    I got my modded 757 from www.jvb.nl and was very impressed by their service. I think they may do DVI mods in the future as the input becomes more widely fitted to plasmas and projectors. Since I've bought the 757, a few DVD players with DVI have appeared such as the Bravo D1 which can upconvert a 480p signal to output a 720p or 1080i signal. Samsung are bringing out the HD931 in June for a predicted $300 which also upconverts from a DVI-HDCP socket - I can feel another player will be winging it's way to me soon...:blush:

    Steve

    Sorry, I don't have any more news on the PAL ps upgrade.
     
  19. taimur

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    I've been reading this thread with interest as I'm building up my AV system. I was going to buy a pioneer 433MXE in a few months.

    At the moment I have my NTL box, VCR and camcorder going into my AV receiver through composite video connections. They all output via a single composite to SCART into my TV.

    I'll be getting an Arcam DV88+ in a few weeks, and initially I'll use the RGB output to my TV SCART input with audio going separately into the AV amp.

    If I buy a pioneer 433MXE, what will I need to buy in addition to the plasma itself to allow me to get connected? And Gordon, do you give setup discounts to people who bought their AV equipment in Stereo Stereo ;) ?

    Thanks
    Taimur
     
  20. miniman

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    nice one. I think i will wait and see what the new key digi card is like and then go from there. The dvi mod seems like a good idea, but as you say the 757 may be relagated to the bench by then although as I have the ax10 i amp I will still use it for sacd/dvd-a.
    Exciting times we live in!
     
  21. miniman

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    taimur what receiver do you have, does it have component inptuts/output? if so you will need a conversion box like a js one, for your ntl scart to component and use component from your dvd to amp and the use the output to the plasma. from what I've been told this is best until a different card(such as the kd) is used.
    of course this depends on your receiver
     
  22. taimur

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    I have a Rotel 1055 receiver, which has two component inputs and one output. I see I would need to buy a converter for RGB to component for the NTL box and use the other component input on the receiver for the component out of the DVD player.

    Presumably I would need to buy a component to plasma VGA converter, to get the image from my NTL box/DVD to the plasma, but probably with a switching box of some sort too.

    That still doesn't solve my camcorder or VCR problem, though! So, I guess there's no alternative but to buy some sort of video switching box.

    Taimur
     
  23. miniman

    miniman
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    not sure on the camcorder front, but the vcr can be conected via composite to the plasma, and connect the component output from the amp to the bnc input on the plasma and use the amp as a video switcher. This way you only have to buy one converter box.
     
  24. taimur

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    tha camcorder also has composite out, so presumably I could use the same method of conversion as the VCR.

    Could you give me an example shopping list :) ?

    Thanks
    Taimur
     
  25. miniman

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    media factory for your leads van damme but speak to joe , he is very helpfull, also I know he sells js converters and lots of members use these and are happy with them. But have a look around and see what you come up with, there are cheaper alternatives but from what other members have told me if your spending that much on a plasma you dont want to skimp too much on connectors.
     
  26. n0bby

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    Could I perchance hijack my thread back and get some advice on what I'll be needing to get set up... ;)

    Right now I'm pretty much set on the following:

    PDP-433MXEV plasma
    Pioneer DV-757Ai DVD player

    At the moment I'm not sure whether to go for an all-Pioneer setup with the Pioneer VSX-D2011 receiver, or go for the highly-regarded Denon AVR-3803 with its 'video up-conversion' facility. So, two questions:

    Which receiver would you guys recommend?

    What would I need to get everything plumbed together, also including existing Sky digibox and Gamecube?
     
  27. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  28. miniman

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    nobby read above, connector wise pretty much the same. as for the amp I went for the ax10 and am very pleased with the results the fire wire link makes a hell of a difference and only paid £2000(only!!!!!) as for the 2011 or the denon have a look in the amp section I think people like both so That means get a demo and trust your own ears.
     
  29. n0bby

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    Er, pardon Gordon..?

    Miniman - cheers for the advice.
     
  30. tonymccandless

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    Guys

    In same situation as original message in that I am about to buy a 433MXE and need to work out what extra's to buy.

    I am right in thinking i can get component out from my AVC-A1SE to the BNC connectors into the 433MXE. If so this makes life a bit easier (I think !!)

    T
     

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