Pioneer pdp lx5090 red tint to blacks - Part 2 - now open to other models

i dont understand.
i run all content as usual.

have you bought the KRP500 from the seller here yet gigglebug :)?


No KRP I'm afraid! I was under the impression that it was neccessary to take it easy for a while post reset and run full screen to
 
i hope you get one in the future :)
just use the tv as it should be used with varied content.
 
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great work!
you dont need any help here i see :)

you are solving problems that i never have seen on my Kuro
write down all of it and what did what.
i could be great information for others that will do the reset.

Stroke of luck that is.

47 is just a service manual pre calculation starting point is all that XPOF is basically :)
 

That's a bargain compared to what they go on the bay for !.

When i sold my 500A February 2013 it was to a mate with the swivel stand, S03's and WW displayport 2m cable for £1250 with an ISF night done by Piers Clerk.

If it wasn't a mate who has four other Kuro's and a VX100 - i would probably have held out for at least £1600. But i wanted to keep in touch with it basically, seeing it was a reset and re-adjust job by me :)
 
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i dont understand.
i run all content as usual.

have you bought the KRP500 from the seller here yet gigglebug :)?


No KRP I'm afraid! I was under the impression that it was neccessary to take it easy for a while post reset and run full screen to

Display an all white signal for an hour a day (service menu patterns) for a week is my advice. Or the usual white on black screen wipe for two/three hours a week

60PS frequency is more than fine for the phosphors. Not as bright as 50,60,72 and 75 but more than enough.

Ah... Which reminds me... Bluray 24 fps and the 72VS (HZ) - unmatched flat panel movie playing processing nirvana.
 
Cheers Stu

I've been running the wipe regularly anyhow's so that's ok. Is there any risk from over use of the Mask and wipe??

I have managed to gain some fairly deep IR in the process of altering the panel. The words "panel" from the service menu and "Input" from the ever flashing icon can be seen in opposite top corners. It's covered by regular content mostly so not a major drama but can be seen on the all white screen and on the odd bit of very light content. Shame but hopefully now I've finished messing it will start to dissipate, hopefully!
 
"Something to do with the majority of the workings in in a separate box as opposed to actually in the monitor was one reason i heard as well as different modules meant for the next gen that unfortunately did not appear"


"the separated box with its video processing is now free from any statics caused by the power supply board or other high voltage stuff inside the panel."


Do you guy's think that the 500A's would have the edge over the 500M's as the M would have it's power supply internally as oppose to having it separate? I'd always fancied an M
 
its only the KRP500A that has external video processing unit right?
so theoretically it should beat the other Kuros in picture quality.

Stu should know this as he has owned both
 
Not been in the service menu for 2 days now, feel like an addict who's kicked the habit!

Have been preoccupied with the colour temp instead though. I've managed to get it so that there's no static on the background black and it's as flat and even as it's going to get. It's been a balancing act between the brightness control and the Red/Green/Blue low settings. Small adjustments make a big difference here, one either way making the difference between having static or not and losing detail in dark parts of scenes. Came down to a choice between;

Brightness +1
R Low -3
G Low -1
B Low -1 and

Brightness 0
R Low 0
G Low 0
B Low 0 Default I know but I never seem to have it set to this

Though there where plenty of other variations tried these were the best 2. I've ended up with the latter as it tested slightly better on the blacks test page. I think it is very important to get these 3 settings correct as I personally spent far too long mis-adjusting in the service menu to get the same results (No static or too much unevenness) as merely get these 3 settings correct to the panel.

"Prometheus" has proved invaluable getting this right as has "Battleships"

I have moved into Movie as it looks more natural than the User setting as far as colours go and far less processed. It isn't quite as bright as the User using Patriks settings but still has a lot more pop than Isf night. I've got fairly random settings for the high's but they seem to work giving the best whites and getting rid of the redness that the panel naturally seems to have. They are;

R High -16
G High -12
B High +7

Colour is set to -2

I basically used Isf night as a marker as black skin tones and the greens of vegetation etc still look awesome in this setting compared to any of the others. I've manged to replicate this and also have perfectly bright whites so a happy bunny today!
 
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Losing details in dark parts?.
Yep thats the 5090s with to low blacklevel (or wrong setup for RGB LOWs/blackclipping)
They can't handle "lower than stock" blacks as good as the KRP500As.
I can see it clearly when comparing both.

But i dont think the 5090s or mine are bad at rendering details and colors near black when they are slightly underdriven after a reset.
they are probably still better than that Toys "R" Us OLED tv from LG :p

Its just that the KRP500As are made for these insane low blacks that you get after a reset :clap:
they doesnt lose one single color bit or detail near black!

Its a compromise.
Either raise the voltages to get cleaner near black details or live with the lost colors and gradings near black and have almost 0 blacks everywhere.
Its the same with my 5090 and i chose the latter.
But you only notice the lost low color bits in really low APL scenes right ?

do you have zero blacks on that 5090 or do they glow?
if you have some glow you should be close to stock and then you should have better near black details than it sounds now.
so maybe you need to keep tuning in the RGB Lows and Brightness settings?

you can also try to raise YKNOFS1 D as that voltage affects gamma near black.
set it to low and you will get dirty redish looking details near black.

also what patterns are you using when you are checking blackclipping?
use the one from the AVSHD709 disc if you dont have it.
http://privat.bahnhof.se/wb192876/1-Black Clipping.mp4

you can also put up this rgb test
http://privat.bahnhof.se/wb192876/fullrgb_test.jpg
check if you have any colortone in the boxes and try to neutralize them.

i hope you solve the issues soon and can enjoy the 5090 instead :)

and also remember
No TV is perfect
except one :clap:
 
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But you only notice the lost low color bits in really low APL scenes right ?

Yes that's right. It's interesting to pause a really dark scene and switch to Isf day mode. Even though it ultimately looks horrible it does show up all the detail that is missing from the other modes.

I think my blacks are black with no glow though I might have a go at adjusting YKNOFS1 D again to see it's effect. Unfortunately raising the brightness or the RGB Lows will bring back the unevenness and I definitely can't live with that no matter the effect on detail so I might be at the best compromise setting as it is.

I am using the black clipping pattern above but I keep meaning to ask if someone could post a picture of theirs so I can see exactly whereabouts on the pattern I should be. I'm not 100% sure if I'm aiming for a complete bar at a certain number or merely any sign of a bar at a certain number. + or - 1 to the brightness has a massive effect on this pattern so it's not easy to be accurate

I've not used or seen the Full RGB pattern. I take it I'm looking for any signs of coloring within the boxes? I'll have a look at it later to see what's what

Overall I'm happy with where it is at the moment, it is looking good. Certainly the best picture I've seen on a Tv. I've started to relax and watch the movies again rather than watch the panel itself. Getting the background even has been the major achievement, I wasn't going to be happy until that was correct. After that it was trying to replicate some of the tonal qualities of the Isf night setting which I've always struggled to get in the other modes. Maximum detail would be nice but not at the sacrifice of the other aspects which are making it so good at the moment
 
The full RGB pattern is a good tool and showed that there was still a redness to the color which has been sorted with a few adjustments. I've still not managed to have brightness raised without having to lower G and B Low to compensate for uniformity so it is what it is and I'm not overly worried about it

I did try raising YKNOFS1 D but it had no visible effect so I returned it to it's original setting.

Do I need to reset again even though the figure has been returned to the same setting?

 
and also remember
No TV is perfect
except one :clap:

Let me guess. 500A?

it should be the 500A but i have to take it back here.
even the 500A isnt perfect but as i see its the one that is closest to perfection as today.
a perfect tv could be the 500A but with even higher brightness around 600cd/m2 and Dolby Vision HDR.
Rec2020 gamut and an even blacker AG filter.
8K resolution and 70" size
that would be the ultimate tv! :)

sure you can do another reset after you are finished with the voltages and settings.
 
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im fine tuning my 5090 that has some minor problems due to the 19K Hours of uneven wearout.
i have discovered a great pattern to set S4 at
or more correct the space between S3 and S4.

is the space to narrow between them or if S4 is set to low you will see pixels lagging inbetween the
flashes.

Use this
Flashing Color bars from the AVSHD709 disc.
http://privat.bahnhof.se/wb192876/4-Flashing Color Bars.mp4

here is how the lagging pixels looks like.
http://privat.bahnhof.se/wb192876/20140618_123705.mp4

i had S4 at stock 172 but i had to raise it to 192 to get it clean.

i hope this helps some to solve at least one problem that can occur after a reset.

Edit: i also tried it on my reseted KRP500A
no lagging pixels on that one with stock voltages.
 
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ok so to get closer to the near black performance of the KRP500A with its clean details and better grading i had to raise the voltages and so the blacklevel on the LX5090.
its closer and it now renders low APL scenes much better but it still cant match the KRP500A that can stay at this super low blacklevel without problems.

2 Minutes of Exposure in a pitch black room while displaying a full black field.
its not glowing this much irl but this will give you an idea of the differences.
the blacklevel on the LX5090 is still unmeasurable with the Xrite I1 Display pro colormeter so its under 0.002Y.
i wonder what the blacklevel of the KRP is at :clap::p ?

(the light on the lower left corner on the KRP is from an LED lamp and not from the panel)
blacklevel.jpg

i didnt know that all those irritating small LED lamps that is placed on EVERY device could lighten up the room as much as this ;)
i think i need some tape here.

here is the voltages i ended up with for the LX5090
everything at default except raised S4
RSTP is set back to its default value of 31 instead of 16 (000 setting and a restart)
Y and XSUS_B lowered at the same amount to get a clean white field.

LX5090
VOL SUS 128
VOL OFFSET 140
VOL RST P 031
VOL XPOPS1 085
VOL XPOFS2 047
VOL YKNOFS1 D 143
VOL YKNOFS3 D 128
VOL YKNOFS4 D 192
VOL YKNOFSA D 128
YSUS_B 121
XSUS_B 121

Edit:
i had the backpanel off on the LX5090 to set back the VS_ADJ pot to its default value.
you learn from the misstakes.
that adjustment to the pot was before i knew that Y and XSUS_B had the same effect.

you can also see the differences in wearout between the two
on the KRP i had to lower Y/XSUS_B to 125 to get a clean white field.
for the 5090 with its 19.5K hours of usage i had to lower it to 121.
(lower Y/XSUS_B raises the overall voltage on the panel)

Tip:
if you have problems with buzzing/Screaming transistors on a Full white field
try to change Y/XSUS_B a few steps up or down.
even if the field is clean you can have them wrong set.
you should get no buzzing or high pitch rattling noise when you have set them perfectly.
 
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Hi Patrik

Can you tell me what you see on RST MASK 14/15 with the figures you have above? I can remember which number it is exactly and I'm at work but it's the pinky purple color.

It just that if I have S3 and S4 too far apart from each other there are white pulsing pixels on this mask. As I close the 2 voltages up together the white pulses start to fade towards the right hand side of the panel then disappear when the ultimate balance is reached. I will have a try with your figures when I get home but I'm sure that S3 and S4 will be way too far apart to not have these pulses

Mine are S3 at 128 and S4 at 160 by the way. Any higher on S4 or any lower on S3 brings on the pulses.
 
right
dirty screen on rst mask 15 with to high distance between S3/S4 but i had to raise S4 or lower S3 by 10 to get it.
so i think you have the correct space already.

im writing down some info on the pictures
its easier to remember.

MASK15.jpg


colorbars.jpg

MAGENTAMISFIRES.jpg


One note on cleaning up misfires with YSUS_B and XSUS_B
if you still have a small amount of misfires on Mask 1 that you cant get rid of no matter how low you set these two voltages.
clean up most of it with lower YSUS_B and XSUS_B and leave them (should be around 122-125)
then Raise VOL_SUS a few clicks (130-135) to clean up the remaining misifres.
you should see the before and after effect more clear with Mask 11

VOL_SUS and YSUS_B and XSUS_B are not exactly the same after all.
it seems that YSUS_B and XSUS_B does the hard work better while VOL_SUS is better for fine tuning the last remaning misfires.
 
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I need i Klein K10-A!
can someone borrow one ? :)

KRPansi.jpg


i did an ANSI contrast test on the KRP500A and as i already have noticed
the Glass is even better and has less light leak than the LX5090.
the few readings i got from the Xrite i1 Display Pro was probably lightleak to the colormeter and not from the glass itself.

anyway
here is the old Ansi contrast test with the LX5090
b02eef9f_ansi.jpg


here is with the KRP500A and with higher light output.
KrpAnsi2.jpg
 
everything can be solved after the reset.
even for the folks at AVS ;)

forcing some problems on the KRP500A now with the rst masks and combi masks.
the two voltages that may be adjusted only is S3 and S4. (if you have set Y and XSUS_B correct that is)
tune them in and you will pass every mask.
remember to stay inside the adjustment ranges for your panel as from the service manual.

the combi masks that will show most problemes should be Nr6 and Nr7
and raster mask nr15

combi6_1.jpg


combi6_2.jpg

it was hard to capture the strobe light flashing misfires on camera with the right colorballance so i had to make them black and white.

after you set mask nr6
move on to mask nr7
you may have to go back and forth with adjustments of S3 and S4 a few times until both are clean.
 
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Do you ever just watch the tv?
 
probably more than most do after a reset :)
but if you read here it looks the opposite with testpatterns all day long.

vacation the whole week here so there is time for some testing.
this is also the first time that i use the build in testpatterns.
i have never used them before.
its like testing a new drug :laugh:
 
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Patrik G what software you using?
 

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