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pioneer Kuro - has 'rainbow' effect?!

kryten

Established Member
Was in local comet today taking a look at LCD and Plasma screens. They had the Pioneer Kuro 42" (PDP4280) and the 50" one above the other.

Both were being fed from a Sony Bluray player with a Pioneer demo disc.

I was chatting to a mate, turned to look at him an BANG - picked up rainbow effect exactly the same as on a single chip DLP - this was on a black and white scene.

Both the 42" and 50" screens did it and I've never noticed it before (we both saw it on several different scenes).

If that's 'normal' then i definitely couldn't live with it and it'll have to be LCD. Anyone else see rainbow on a Plasma screen??
 

andrewfee

Prominent Member
All Plasmas do this. I believe it's due to the blue phosphor being ‘quicker’ than red/green. Generally people call it ‘phosphor lag.’

phosphor-lag.jpg


Apparently only a few people can see it though.
 

Spacecat

Banned
its been discussed in detail before in this section.

I am very sensitive to rainbows on DLP projectors but in the case of my plasma after a week or so i stopped seeing them
 

kryten

Established Member
Doh, a middle of the night (was working!) search failed to find anything - must have mistyped or something. Not sure at the price i want to take the risk of whether i stop seeing them.
 

sdb123

Distinguished Member
It's a different phenomenon than the Rainbow effect. Phosphur lag is inherent in Plasma technology however it varies massively between models.

I suffer from the rainbow effect from DLP projectors (it makes me feel ill) and did initially notice phosphur lag on my Plasma. The sensation is nowhere near as bad and I got used to it within a week.
 

-Ad-

Prominent Member
You lot must have super eyes, i cerntainly haven't seen it on any of the feeds I saw on the kuros when comparing before buying.

I thank my eyes for this :)
 

eidetic

Established Member
I see the rainbow (AKA "plainbow") effect on my Pio 428XD. However, after a couple of weeks it has calmed down. Either my brain has reprogrammed itself not to see them so intensely, or the phosphors have started to burn in. On black and white material (Control DVD for example) they still bother me, but colour material seems vastly better now.

Apparently very few people can see them, but I find it hard to believe the phenomenon is as rare as is claimed.
 

AcademicBarzo

Prominent Member
I also find it hard to believe it is so rare. Sadly, I am having to return my Panasonic 42Z85 for precisely this reason. I have had the TV for nearly two weeks, and hoped I would get used to the 'green flashes/fringing' on high contrast material, but I cannot (and yes, I have tried different settings) This is such a shame, as in all other respects I am so very happy with the Panny, and will be sorry to see it go. However, given that I watch a lot of black and white material (old classic movies on upscaled DVD), and play a lot of high contrast gaming material (e.g. GTA IV, GOW), the green flashes are just too obvious and frequent to ignore, and adversely effect my viewing experience.

Damn these eyes of mine.:D Tomorrow I will have a big space where a TV used to be, and have to begin the search for an issue free (and in many ways inferior to plasma) LCD TV - might be easier to find the holy grail.:devil:

The delicious irony of all this is that I moved to a Plasma screen because of dissatisfaction with big screen LCD (backlighting issues, mushy movement, etc). In my experience, however, Plasma has not been the shining alternative I expected it to be, due to this inherent technological problem. If only big screen CRT still existed...
 

badbob

Banned
Phosphur lag is inherent in Plasma technology

CRT also. Noticed it on my Panasonic 28" CRT and Toshiba CRT RP during Helms Deep sequence. Also on the bouncy ball Zensonic screensaver, there's a trail on the leading edge.
 

andrewfee

Prominent Member
I also find it surprising that so many people don't see it. I find it's much more obvious than the rainbow effect I get from my 5x DLP projector. (the only reason I kept the projector is because it was so cheap and the rainbows aren't that frequent if I'm not looking for them)

I'm having a really hard time trying to decide on a display now.

I absolutely hate the poor black levels, screen/brightness uniformity, motion handling, viewing angles that LCDs have.

Plasmas are getting much better when it comes to black level, but this ‘phosphor lag’ is a major problem for me, and they also have various other issues.

Front/Rear Projection has you purchasing bulbs every couple of years, requires viewing in a dark room and just isn't suited to a room as small as mine.

CRTs still look the best, but you just can't buy good ones any more and they're obviously rather small in comparison.


I'm tempted by the 9G Kuros, but I know that the black levels still won't be dark enough for me, and the higher contrast means that phosphor lag is going to be even more apparent.

:suicide:


EDIT:
CRT also. Noticed it on my Panasonic 28" CRT and Toshiba CRT RP during Helms Deep sequence. Also on the bouncy ball Zensonic screensaver, there's a trail on the leading edge.
Phosphor lag on a CRT is relatively minor, showing as dark green trails behind bright objects moving over dark backgrounds.

Phosphor lag on a Plasma shows as green trails behind fast-moving objects, whether it's over a dark background or not. It splits the image into a blue/green double-image as pictured above, and often shows as bright flashes rather than just trails.

phosphor-crt.jpg

(this is pretty much worst-case scenario for a CRT)
 

kryten

Established Member
CRTs still look the best, but you just can't buy good ones any more and they're obviously rather small in comparison.

Haha, I didn't think that when carrying my old 36" Tosh CRT to my brother in law's van last night! Damn it was heavy! I've been seriously tempted to knock out a section of the lounge wall and recess the CRT into it (it is joined to my garage).

I see DLP rainbows very badly but its the same issue for me - I just couldn't live with them. I was tempted - after all you sit mostly still if you're watching a film on a big screen but they were so bad for me it just wasn't possible.

I think it would be even worse with a TV where there's a tendancy to chat/move around so I think it'll have to be LCD...
 

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