Pioneer HDMI issue sales of goods act

steve0

Banned
I know ive started a new thread but i did it so the post would not get lost.

Here is my question

How long are you willing to wait for a resolution before you go down The sales of goods act route.

Alot of people are being told to use component so no more issues are being reported, Pioneer are still no closer to a resolution or so they say.

One of the main reasons I purchased the TV was the 2 HDMI ports one for sky hd the other for my HD DVD player, now Im being told to use component which means swapping between Xbox 360, Dvd player and Sky HD, i asked Pioneer for a splitter but was told no.

So i will continue to use HDMI,if it goes wrong and there is no fix within 28 days I will take back to retailer for refund.

:mad: I think its called the law or is that approach too British
 

brendan_dj

Active Member
I had to use the County-Court procedure to get Dixons to refund/exchange my TV which was proved to be faulty by their own engineer within 6 weeks of purchase!

Why they wouldn't replace such a blatant fault up-front beats me.

The County-Court uses a lot of time, stress and also money. All of which, Dixons choose to waste.

I would not wish to go through the same exercise again, even if I was clearly in the right, if I could avoid it.

I would much rather the relatively small, insignificant inconvenience of using component, than the expense, stress and time involved in fighting a claim in the courts.

Read my stressfull experience with Dixons / Currys here
 

strewth_bruce

Standard Member
steve0 said:
How long are you willing to wait for a resolution before you go down The sales of goods act route.

I'm prepared to give them another 2-3 months (really!). I'd consider my (legal) options at that point... I guess. Can definitely do without the hassle though!

(Another) Question is - who would you go the legal route against? The retailer you purchased the TV from or the retailer (Sky) you purchased the Sky HD box from? Both?
 

dazzafact

Active Member
strewth_bruce said:
I'm prepared to give them another 2-3 months (really!). I'd consider my (legal) options at that point... I guess. Can definitely do without the hassle though!

(Another) Question is - who would you go the legal route against? The retailer you purchased the TV from or the retailer (Sky) you purchased the Sky HD box from? Both?

Against the retailer; then it would be the retailers resposibilty to pursue compensation from whoever is at fault! It is the retailer who is bound by the Sales of Goods Act, which is primarily our only legal course of action in such cicumstances. It says in so many words that a product must be fit for its purpose and remain so for a reasonable amount of time. I think the only reaon that this course isn't being used as it takes too bloody long to decide which tv to get in the first place; to then have to decide on a 2nd choice would be a nightmare!!:eek:
 

diverse

Standard Member
As HD TV was only launched in this Country this summer and the TV's were sold as HDTV ready I would not have thought that time was not really an issue, I am going back to John Lewis on this one as there is no sign of a remedy (and component input without sound is not a remedy!)
 

bumpeedog

Standard Member
diverse said:
As HD TV was only launched in this Country this summer and the TV's were sold as HDTV ready I would not have thought that time was not really an issue, I am going back to John Lewis on this one as there is no sign of a remedy (and component input without sound is not a remedy!)

Hi can you let me know whats happends with John lewis ,
thanks
Paul:D
 

brendan_dj

Active Member
diverse said:
(and component input without sound is not a remedy!)

In order to get sound from a Pioneer XDE, you also need to connect a scart-lead from the Sky HD box to SCART input 2 of the XDE.
Stereo sound is passed through the scart connection.
 

Tollyman

Active Member
diverse said:
As HD TV was only launched in this Country this summer and the TV's were sold as HDTV ready I would not have thought that time was not really an issue, I am going back to John Lewis on this one as there is no sign of a remedy (and component input without sound is not a remedy!)

Without knowing that the TV (rather than the SKY box) is at fault you may have a problem getting them to offer a refund/credit.

Interesting to hear what they say though.
 

mremulator

Active Member
I too am getting VERY worried about this. Sky have already switched the HD box manufacturer over to Amstrad (as far as I'm aware), which may or may not be prone to the same problem as the Thompson.

I'm hoping that Pioneer & Sky don't try and sweep this under the carpet. I'm under the impression that there will only be somewhere in the region of 40,000 Thompson boxes produced in total, only a few thousand (at a guess) of these will be connected to Pioneer PDP's and many of these will now be connected via component. I'm basically saying that the numbers are bound to be small, as the problem has been contained.

Pioneer could string this out for another 10 months and simply change their current warranty policy.

In addition, don't forget Pioneer need Sky HD in order to sell as many screens as they have been lately, Pioneer will happily tell you this. Neither Sky or Pioneer are going to want to point the finger at each other at the end of the day. If Sky are proven to be at fault does anyone seriously think that they will recall 40,000 HD boxes... I don't think so.

Pioneer & Sky probably know exactly what the problem is, I honestly beleive the only reason we do not yet have a solution is because of company politics.
 

steve0

Banned
If yor TV is under a year old I would say still use HDMI, the more people who do this the closer we will get to a solution Pioneer may string this out for months if we all stay with component.

I would bet my house that they know the cause already
 

mremulator

Active Member
steve0 said:
I would bet my house that they know the cause already

EXACTLY :smashin:
 

bumpeedog

Standard Member
mremulator said:
I too am getting VERY worried about this. Sky have already switched the HD box manufacturer over to Amstrad (as far as I'm aware), which may or may not be prone to the same problem as the Thompson.

I'm hoping that Pioneer & Sky don't try and sweep this under the carpet. I'm under the impression that there will only be somewhere in the region of 40,000 Thompson boxes produced in total, only a few thousand (at a guess) of these will be connected to Pioneer PDP's and many of these will now be connected via component. I'm basically saying that the numbers are bound to be small, as the problem has been contained.

Pioneer could string this out for another 10 months and simply change their current warranty policy.

In addition, don't forget Pioneer need Sky HD in order to sell as many screens as they have been lately, Pioneer will happily tell you this. Neither Sky or Pioneer are going to want to point the finger at each other at the end of the day. If Sky are proven to be at fault does anyone seriously think that they will recall 40,000 HD boxes... I don't think so.

Pioneer & Sky probably know exactly what the problem is, I honestly beleive the only reason we do not yet have a solution is because of company politics.
I have been saying this all a long DONT TRUST ANYONE, you are spot on in what you say mremulater .some one needs to take the blame , but there goes that flying PIG again :lease:
 

chaparral

Well-known Member
mremulator said:
I'm hoping that Pioneer & Sky don't try and sweep this under the carpet..

I don't think this would be possible for pioneer this time....Or it would get around to every mag//forums//shops//people etc..and then just about no one would be buying any new pioneer plasmas..
 

Pat_C

Well-known Member
Tollyman said:
Without knowing that the TV (rather than the SKY box) is at fault you may have a problem getting them to offer a refund/credit.
Yes, I think that is exactly the problem that will be encountered. And according to the Sale of Goods Act, if the TV is more than six months old it is up to the consumer to prove that the inherent design fault existed at the time of purchase - not for the retailer to prove otherwise. Without a statement of admission from the manufacturer that is going to be very difficult.
 

Tollyman

Active Member
Don't be so quick to Judge whether or not Sky or Pioneer would do a recall.

40,000 SKY HD boxes are worth £12m retail. I assume that it doesn't cost that much for SKY to buy but lets say that it will cost SKY that much including installation costs. This sounds like a lot but it's peanuts to big firms compared to the damage that not doing it could do to their reputation (it cost Cadburys £20m to recall all their suspect choccy bars).

Sky might also limit the cost by only replacing boxes for Pioneer owners.

Pioneer Customer Relations guy assured me they would do a product recall if it was required.
 

Tarbat

Well-known Member
brendan_dj said:
I would much rather the relatively small, insignificant inconvenience of using component, than the expense, stress and time involved in fighting a claim in the courts.
The online moneyclaim court service is a lot easier than going to a County Court. I've used it and it took very little of my time, and succesfully got my full claim. See https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp I'd have thought a case for a TV where the manufacturer is telling people not to use a particular feature (HDMI) would easily win based on the TV not being fit for purpose.

Perhaps someone should consider a test case against their retailer.
 

Mr-big-d

Standard Member
Pat_C said:
Without a statement of admission from the manufacturer that is going to be very difficult.

Surely by extending the warranty relating to this problem, they have already admitted they are at fault!
 

Pat_C

Well-known Member
Tarbat said:
I'd have thought a case for a TV where the manufacturer is telling people not to use a particular feature (HDMI) would easily win based on the TV not being fit for purpose.
But aren't they telling people to avoid the HDMI connection only when connecting a Sky box?
 

Pat_C

Well-known Member
Mr-big-d said:
Surely by extending the warranty relating to this problem, they have already admitted they are at fault!
I doubt that argument would last 30 seconds in court, in front of a good defence lawyer. Or as long as it would take them to point out that the HDMI port works fine with other equipment.

I don't think it is too difficult for lawyers to get a case moved from a (small claims) county court to a higher court, and drag the case out for a very long time, with all the associated costs. I guess they would argue that this isn't a small claim as it could set a precedent for multiple claims of a much higher value.
 
A

andyjeffries

Guest
Pat_C said:
I doubt that argument would last 30 seconds in court, in front of a good defence lawyer. Or as long as it would take them to point out that the HDMI port works fine with other equipment.

I don't think it is too difficult for lawyers to get a case moved from a (small claims) county court to a higher court, and drag the case out for a very long time, with all the associated costs. I guess they would argue that this isn't a small claim as it could set a precedent for multiple claims of a much higher value.

IANAL but I thought small claims track cases didn't set binding precedents.

The real reason they'd want it moving is that it's highly unlikely that the judge will award legal fees reimbursement for a successful defence in a small claims case (although they can) so they'd want it moving to a higher track. However, the judge is unlikely to allow it if that is their only/stated reason.
 

Pat_C

Well-known Member
andyjeffries said:
IANAL but I thought small claims track cases didn't set binding precedents.
I'm not either, and you may well be right. I still think there are probably many ways for a case to be spun out through repeated hearings though, causing inconvenience and expense to the claimant. One such tactic may be calling various expert witnesses.
 

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