Pioneer DVR420 - aspect switching problem?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by hutchingsp, Dec 26, 2004.

  1. hutchingsp

    hutchingsp
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    I'm considering a Pioneer DVR420 which would be used with a Sky+ box over RGB into a Panasonic TV.

    On an earlier thread, someone mentioned they had heard of problems with widescreen/aspect ratio switching, along the lines of you have to manually set the aspect ratio on the TV, the Pioneer either won't record or send the necessary signal to tell the TV that a recording is 4:3 or 16:9.

    This is how it was explained to my by eddyad:

    My comments about the WS problem are secondhand as I don't have Sky. This is the situation as i understand it:
    The WS trigger is transmitted in line 23 of the TV pic (the bit you don't see and where Teletext is).
    The scart spec also puts it on Pin 8 on the scart, which is a Europe-only interface.
    TVs tend to work with either, but the recorders with line 23 only - I suspect because scart is a pain to add to machines designed around Japanese and US standards which are s-Video and Component oriented.
    Sky uses Pin 8 but not line 23. Hence problem.
    You need to ask the question of Panasonic and Toshiba owners, but I think they are the same.

    Does anyone have any experience of this and can confirm/deny that it happens - if it does it seems a major PITA.

    cheers,
    Paul
     
  2. phelings

    phelings
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    I have a Pioneer which records Line23 WSS.However,although I have recordings to show that BBC1 was using Line23 earlier in the year,no channels seem to at the moment.
    I believe Toshiba allow manual entering of WSS
     
  3. pinatubo

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    I had a Pioneer 420 for Xmas.
    Using a Pace Di4001 NTL cable box set to output RGB and Widescreen.
    Recorded a sample of football being viewed in widescreen.
    Put 420 and NTL box into standby - switched the TV off.

    Switch on tv to view analogue tuner output- shows 4:3 picture.
    Switch on 420 - using disk navigator select the football sample.
    Selected play - the TV switched to widescreen and played the sample back in widescreen.

    I conclude that with my setup 420 widescreen switching occurs automatically but situation is complicated.

    Set up as follows using fully wired scart leads:-
    NTL TV scart socket to 420 AV2 socket
    420 AV1 scart socket to TV AV1 socket
    The TV is a 21inch Philips 4:3 model.

    The NTL box also no longer automatically swiches the TV to widesceen if the 420 is in standby .Whereas the NTL box would switch the TV to widescreen when connected to the TV directly the introduction of the 420 into the loop has blocked this action.The Pioneer has to be turned on and the TV/Video button pressed to allow widescreen viewing of the NTL output or ,if the 420 is in standby ,the TV widescreen setting needs to be selected manually.

    What a confusing situation!!
     
  4. hutchingsp

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    That's my "worry". I want to record at the best possible quality so would be using the Sky+ box's RGB output into the Pioneers input, then running the Pioneers output into the RGB Scart on the TV.

    The TV is a Panasonic TX-28PL1. Sky+ box is a Pace v2.

    Needless to say I don't want to lose the auto aspect switching, it would be a nightmare having to manually change it for every single program where it alters!

    regards,
    Paul
     
  5. johnjackthom

    johnjackthom
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    The situation is not so bad with my Panasonic E55 or E60 and I assume it applies to all of the range.

    Scart pin 8 widescreen switching is passed to the TV whether the DVDR is in standby or switched ON and displaying Sky which is connected to its RGB input AV2, so definitely no switching problems there.

    My Panasonics do suffer from what seems to be a common shortcoming.
    The widescreen flag is never set on recordings to DVD-R, so on playback the TV has to be manually switched to widescreen for such recordings.

    This does not apply to recordings on DVD-RAM which always switch the TV automatically.
     
  6. eddyad

    eddyad
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    I forgot the Panasonic prob - no WS flag at all on DVD-Rs, regardless of source or recording quality.
    One guy is getting to DVD-R via DVD-RAM from an E85 then copying to DVD-R on a PC and inserting the flag with PC s/ware.

    I suppose that if you have a WS TV then recording without the flag is inconvenient - but at least a button press on the TV remote will force WS mode to watch the recording.

    Can anyone confirm or otherwise that Sky WS recordings on Pioneer HDD play back with automatic switching? If so the solution may be to copy/record to DVD-RW in VR mode. DVD-RWs are more expensive than DVD-R, but would solve the problem.

    What does Toshiba XS32 do? I haven't seen any comments about that.
     
  7. eddyad

    eddyad
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    If the same signal type (RGB or composite) is going to the 420 (video in) as to the TV from the 420 (video out) then I think passthrough on standby should work as if the 420 wasn't there because it is doing nothing except connect all the AV2 scart pins to the AV1 scart pins when you turn it to standby.

    Why did we ever accept the scart idea instead of the s-video route? :(
     
  8. hutchingsp

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    Well to quote a reply from someone on uk.media.dvd -

    When the DVD recorder is in standby, it passes through the RGB signal from
    the Sky+ to the Panny 32" TV without interference, including the widescreen
    switching.

    Which seems a pretty definitive answer to me.. just have to convince myself to part with the money now :)
     
  9. eddyad

    eddyad
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    You still with the 420 then? Mine certainly passes through what it gets in. This is easily seen by feeding RGB in and setting the 420 to RGB in, Composite out.

    Then when it's in standby the TV clearly shows the RGB version. As soon as the 420 is turned on the pic drops to composite - duller and less sharp, and the RGB-only pic adjustments disappear from the TV menu.
     
  10. hutchingsp

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    Hmm.. a chap on the newsgroups has Sky+ and a 220 and has been very helpful so far as answering all the little questions that the people who sell these things can't even answer :)

    So far I think I've established that an RGB input from Sky+ will record in RGB and will pass through aspect ratio switching to the TV even when the recorder is in standby.

    Apparently you need to manually set the aspect ratio when playing recording back that were made from Sky+, aparently this is to do with the pin that Sky use to specify that sort of thing - this is a bit over my head but apparently they use pin 8 instead of 23?

    One thing he did say that worries me -

    One weird thing: When the 220 is turned on, the RGB is no longer passed
    through. The TV says it's still receiving RGB, but the picture has the
    familiar "fizz" about it that you get when you press TV on the Sky control
    and it flicks back to composite. Recordings are still in RGB though.

    That sounds contrary to what you said, and what I would expect, which is that if the 420 (220 in his case) is set to output RGB, that's what you should get?

    Bloody nightmare this, it wouldn't be so bad but I don't think I'm asking anything particularly demanding from a DVD player am I?!

    thanks for your help all!
    Paul
     
  11. eddyad

    eddyad
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    Sky send the WS signal along pin 8 of the scart. The recorders expect it in Line 23 of the TV picture (i.e. the off-screen 23rd scan line of the picture).

    Sky are being non-standard in not using line 23 - everything else does - it's an agreed standard, while scart is a European camel (horse designed by a committee :laugh: ).

    So the recorders don't see Sky's WS signal
    For some reason TV's do - I suspect the manufacturers gave in in despair of trying to change Mr Murdoch's mind because Sky refuse to change.

    The reason the Sky WS signal is OK in standby is that all the scart pins connect directly from AV2 > AV1.
    When the 420 is off the RGB from my Freeview STB goes straight through.
    The 420 is set to RGB for video in and out.

    When the 420 is turned on the TV pic disappears for a moment then reapppears without sound, the it flashes and the sound and pic are fine.

    When the 420 is turned off the TV pic disappears for a moment, then reappears as a totally red image then goes off again and reappears as normal.

    It's all a bit disconcerting, but I've put it down to the 420 changing the AV2 > AV1 scart connection from direct to through the 420 processor and back again. Somewhere along the way during turn off, the green and blue connection is delayed.

    In a way you (we) are not using the kit as designed because we are getting the record signal from the TV-out of the tuner box and using the DVD machine to pass it through.

    I don't know about the Sky TV 'fizz' although it has been mentioned somewhere else in the forum.
     
  12. eddyad

    eddyad
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    On analogue TV Channel 4 used to use line 23 - I think they still do for films. BBC claim they never did and did not intend to do so (I phoned them a couple of years ago).
    All digital terrestrial transmissions use line 23 for WS switching when required. They must do or the TV wouldn't change pic size when passing through a switched-on 420.
    Sky does not pass it on when they transmit terrestrial TV - you get the scart Pin 8 signal instead, which will pass through a switched-off 420 but not a switched-on one.
    I don't even know if Sky send out the digital versions of the BBC and ITV terrestrial channels (i.e. the WS versions).
     

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