Pioneer dv-868ai and the chroma bug

fred123go

Banned
Hey all,
now my denon 2800 mk11 is pretty damn good, but since i opted for the ax10i i would like to take advantage of i-link and also the denon kinda sticks out in my av rack, i like the slimmer pioneer.
Just a few questions:
does it have the chroma bug?i find this very annoying and just thought maybe just maybe they would have sorted this issue out
I will use it to feed my panasonic ae-300 for about 7 months and then get a hdmi equipped sim2 domino 20 but will the component progressive output be equal/better than the 757i?
I can probably get the 757 at digital directs price and get another servo, don't really need it as my room isn't that big, so i would prefer a future proof high end dvd player, the 868 seems to do everything i need
cheers
fred
p.s also is it possible to use a hdmi to dvi lead to feed the panasonic?
and does it come with a supplied i-link cable?
 

fred123go

Banned
ok after doing some searching, apparently there is no chroma bug, the i-link cable comes with it but still not sure if the hdmi to panasonic dvi will work, can anyone confirm this?
cheers
fred
 

Dimmy

Banned
I don't know if the synergy of DCDi between HDMI and DVI has been resolved yet Fred, I doubt you'll be able to buy such a cable and use it.
 

KraGorn

Novice Member
Is the AE300 HDCP-compliant? I don't think it is, not sure, if not then an HDMI-equipped player won't accept it.
 

Dimmy

Banned
It probably is KraGorn, but I think its implementation in DVI is different than it is HDMI.
 

gmt steve

Novice Member
Originally posted by fred123go
ok after doing some searching, apparently there is no chroma bug, the i-link cable comes with it but still not sure if the hdmi to panasonic dvi will work, can anyone confirm this?
cheers
fred
I have to disagree, my 868 definitely has CUE. I had a discussion with gandley about this and since then I have come to the conclusion that the 868 is blighted by the CUE. I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm convinced it's there.
I await Secrets of Home Theater's review of the US version with great anticipation.
 

fred123go

Banned
cheers steve for the feedback, i have decided against getting a new dvd player just yet. My denon is both sounding and looking good on my panny 300. not that desperate for i-link as i doubt it will be much of an improvement.
cheers
fred
 

buns

Banned
id have thought that the biggest problem is the hdcp issue..... additionally i also believe that this machine has the CUE as suggested
 

fred123go

Banned
if you are talking about the denon then yes it does.it is not that apparent but it is still there.is the iscan ultra the only way to get rid of this problem?as it has a filter or something
cheers
fred
 

gmt steve

Novice Member
Yep, I have an Ultra and that clears it up very well, although since it's a filter then I presume some colour resolution is being lost. It's very disapointing that Pioneer still have'nt sorted the CUE out.
 

fred123go

Banned
yes it is rather annoying, they bring out the 868 that is good vfm with hdmi and all the new tech but still the CUE problem. can it be that hard to deal with?i might try and have a word with their r&d and give them a bollucking lol
fred
 

buns

Banned
to be honest it took quite some time before the CUE was spotted in the first place, frankly i think people over exaggerate this problem.

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SL Boy

Standard Member
Please excuse my ignorance but what is the CUE? I am thinking of getting a Pioneer 868 and VSA AX10i to go with Pioneer's 50 inch plasma. Is CUE (or lack of it) an issue for me?
 

gandley

Novice Member
Cue will effect any display that does not feature a filter.
this seems to me where display manufactures go wrong. if alot of dvd players have cue, and they do. Why not just build a filter into there displays?

we see that with PJs that use the faroudja chipsets so why not plasmas. for all there cost this would be a small issue. isnt time plasmas had faroudja or the silicon image de-interlacer/scalers onboared?

anyhow heres a link for the problem in full

Chroma upsampling error info

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html

Oh and yes the 868i does have CUE. but not as bad as some
 

gandley

Novice Member
Buns.

its true that not many saw cue for a while, but then most had crt widescreen tvs that dont realy show the problem in full effect.

i only noticed the problem first when i bought a 50ins plasma. and on a projector it bugs the hell out of me. its so ugly.

so as more people are moving up the ranks big screen wise the issue is getting noticed more, as you cant but help see it the bigger you go.
 

buns

Banned
I have to say ive never seen it, but like you say, i only saw a CUE prone player on a small crt..... with my projectors ive only ever used a non cue player

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gmt steve

Novice Member
Originally posted by buns
to be honest it took quite some time before the CUE was spotted in the first place, frankly i think people over exaggerate this problem.

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That's true, but like gandley says, the proliferation of bigger screens makes it more of a problem. Also, it's like a lot of things you might not notice at first, but when they are pointed out to you, you can't then ignore them. Lots of laypeople wouldn't recognise dotcrawl or interlacing artifacts, but once youv'e pointed them out, they are "spoiled" for life.:)
 

Dimmy

Banned
Originally posted by fred123go
if you are talking about the denon then yes it does.it is not that apparent but it is still there.is the iscan ultra the only way to get rid of this problem?as it has a filter or something
cheers
fred
FOR GOD'S SAKE, UPDATE THE BLOODY FIRMWARE! YOU HAVE IT!
 

fred123go

Banned
chill dim dims, again won't have a system for another bloody week as kefs are taking a week to order. I will have put the firmware on the Denon by then, hopefully-v busy atm.
That was just a question-i do not intend to get the iscan ultra any time soon.
the denon does a great job-well happy with it
fred
 

gandley

Novice Member
Just to end the chroma bug issue with the pioneer 868i.

it appears it uses the same mpeg decoder as the Denon 2900 and does indeed suffer so gmt steve your not seeing things.

but a preview of the secrets test Kriss Deerings has said this.

The 59 AVi(868i) has two forms or CUE, one being more noticeable then others. I think Pioneer is just using the updated Mitsubishi MPEG decoder just like Denon, as it has the same issues as the 2900/2200.

so we can put that to rest then
 

gmt steve

Novice Member
How are you getting these Secrets "previews" gandley?
 

gandley

Novice Member
next quote

Even the best dealers that I've had experience with don't know what to look for in critical testing of DVD players. The Denon 5900 and Pioneer are very similar in some regards, but the 5900 doesn't have the bugs the 59 does. The 59 has two different CUE problems, one being EXTREMELLY noticeable. The 59 also has a chroma delay problem that can't be fixed with their onboard delay adjustment.

The critical testing we do doesn't take into consideration weight or build quality at all, only video performance to a specified spec. The spec is based on how the components are SUPPOSE to perform, not on how we think they should.

I think the 59 and 2900 are fair competitors based on performance, but the 5900 doesn't have the issues associated with either player
 

gandley

Novice Member
Well its not a preview as such, wrong terminology. Just Kriss gives up early info in the avsforum as a bit of a heads up to the coming article
 

Dak

Standard Member
I think I am right in saying that you won't get CUE with an 868 into the Dom20H that you want later as the Dom will do the job of correcting the error.

Can't get technical but that is what I have been told....
 

gandley

Novice Member
well thats a yes and no.

if you use component via interlaced to the domino20h then yes CUE will be filtered.

If you use HDMI then no it wont be filtered as HDMI bypasses the dom20H`s faroudja chipset(Hence you cant pass 480i or 576i over HDMI in this case, or with most pjs it seems with HDMI/DVI) so then it will not be filtered

again if you set the player to progressive via component it will bypass the Faroudja chispset, so no filter

Hope that Helps
 

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