Pioneer dv-868ai and the chroma bug

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by fred123go, Mar 7, 2004.

  1. fred123go

    fred123go
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    Hey all,
    now my denon 2800 mk11 is pretty damn good, but since i opted for the ax10i i would like to take advantage of i-link and also the denon kinda sticks out in my av rack, i like the slimmer pioneer.
    Just a few questions:
    does it have the chroma bug?i find this very annoying and just thought maybe just maybe they would have sorted this issue out
    I will use it to feed my panasonic ae-300 for about 7 months and then get a hdmi equipped sim2 domino 20 but will the component progressive output be equal/better than the 757i?
    I can probably get the 757 at digital directs price and get another servo, don't really need it as my room isn't that big, so i would prefer a future proof high end dvd player, the 868 seems to do everything i need
    cheers
    fred
    p.s also is it possible to use a hdmi to dvi lead to feed the panasonic?
    and does it come with a supplied i-link cable?
     
  2. fred123go

    fred123go
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    ok after doing some searching, apparently there is no chroma bug, the i-link cable comes with it but still not sure if the hdmi to panasonic dvi will work, can anyone confirm this?
    cheers
    fred
     
  3. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    I don't know if the synergy of DCDi between HDMI and DVI has been resolved yet Fred, I doubt you'll be able to buy such a cable and use it.
     
  4. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Is the AE300 HDCP-compliant? I don't think it is, not sure, if not then an HDMI-equipped player won't accept it.
     
  5. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    It probably is KraGorn, but I think its implementation in DVI is different than it is HDMI.
     
  6. gmt steve

    gmt steve
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    I have to disagree, my 868 definitely has CUE. I had a discussion with gandley about this and since then I have come to the conclusion that the 868 is blighted by the CUE. I would love to be proven wrong, but I'm convinced it's there.
    I await Secrets of Home Theater's review of the US version with great anticipation.
     
  7. fred123go

    fred123go
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    cheers steve for the feedback, i have decided against getting a new dvd player just yet. My denon is both sounding and looking good on my panny 300. not that desperate for i-link as i doubt it will be much of an improvement.
    cheers
    fred
     
  8. buns

    buns
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    id have thought that the biggest problem is the hdcp issue..... additionally i also believe that this machine has the CUE as suggested
     
  9. fred123go

    fred123go
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    if you are talking about the denon then yes it does.it is not that apparent but it is still there.is the iscan ultra the only way to get rid of this problem?as it has a filter or something
    cheers
    fred
     
  10. gmt steve

    gmt steve
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    Yep, I have an Ultra and that clears it up very well, although since it's a filter then I presume some colour resolution is being lost. It's very disapointing that Pioneer still have'nt sorted the CUE out.
     
  11. fred123go

    fred123go
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    yes it is rather annoying, they bring out the 868 that is good vfm with hdmi and all the new tech but still the CUE problem. can it be that hard to deal with?i might try and have a word with their r&d and give them a bollucking lol
    fred
     
  12. buns

    buns
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    to be honest it took quite some time before the CUE was spotted in the first place, frankly i think people over exaggerate this problem.

    ad
     
  13. SL Boy

    SL Boy
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    Please excuse my ignorance but what is the CUE? I am thinking of getting a Pioneer 868 and VSA AX10i to go with Pioneer's 50 inch plasma. Is CUE (or lack of it) an issue for me?
     
  14. gandley

    gandley
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    Cue will effect any display that does not feature a filter.
    this seems to me where display manufactures go wrong. if alot of dvd players have cue, and they do. Why not just build a filter into there displays?

    we see that with PJs that use the faroudja chipsets so why not plasmas. for all there cost this would be a small issue. isnt time plasmas had faroudja or the silicon image de-interlacer/scalers onboared?

    anyhow heres a link for the problem in full

    Chroma upsampling error info

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_2/dvd-benchmark-special-report-chroma-bug-4-2001.html

    Oh and yes the 868i does have CUE. but not as bad as some
     
  15. gandley

    gandley
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    Buns.

    its true that not many saw cue for a while, but then most had crt widescreen tvs that dont realy show the problem in full effect.

    i only noticed the problem first when i bought a 50ins plasma. and on a projector it bugs the hell out of me. its so ugly.

    so as more people are moving up the ranks big screen wise the issue is getting noticed more, as you cant but help see it the bigger you go.
     
  16. buns

    buns
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    I have to say ive never seen it, but like you say, i only saw a CUE prone player on a small crt..... with my projectors ive only ever used a non cue player

    ad
     
  17. gmt steve

    gmt steve
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    That's true, but like gandley says, the proliferation of bigger screens makes it more of a problem. Also, it's like a lot of things you might not notice at first, but when they are pointed out to you, you can't then ignore them. Lots of laypeople wouldn't recognise dotcrawl or interlacing artifacts, but once youv'e pointed them out, they are "spoiled" for life.:)
     
  18. Dimmy

    Dimmy
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    FOR GOD'S SAKE, UPDATE THE BLOODY FIRMWARE! YOU HAVE IT!
     
  19. fred123go

    fred123go
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    chill dim dims, again won't have a system for another bloody week as kefs are taking a week to order. I will have put the firmware on the Denon by then, hopefully-v busy atm.
    That was just a question-i do not intend to get the iscan ultra any time soon.
    the denon does a great job-well happy with it
    fred
     
  20. gandley

    gandley
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    Just to end the chroma bug issue with the pioneer 868i.

    it appears it uses the same mpeg decoder as the Denon 2900 and does indeed suffer so gmt steve your not seeing things.

    but a preview of the secrets test Kriss Deerings has said this.

    The 59 AVi(868i) has two forms or CUE, one being more noticeable then others. I think Pioneer is just using the updated Mitsubishi MPEG decoder just like Denon, as it has the same issues as the 2900/2200.

    so we can put that to rest then
     
  21. gmt steve

    gmt steve
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    How are you getting these Secrets "previews" gandley?
     
  22. gandley

    gandley
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    next quote

    Even the best dealers that I've had experience with don't know what to look for in critical testing of DVD players. The Denon 5900 and Pioneer are very similar in some regards, but the 5900 doesn't have the bugs the 59 does. The 59 has two different CUE problems, one being EXTREMELLY noticeable. The 59 also has a chroma delay problem that can't be fixed with their onboard delay adjustment.

    The critical testing we do doesn't take into consideration weight or build quality at all, only video performance to a specified spec. The spec is based on how the components are SUPPOSE to perform, not on how we think they should.

    I think the 59 and 2900 are fair competitors based on performance, but the 5900 doesn't have the issues associated with either player
     
  23. gandley

    gandley
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    Well its not a preview as such, wrong terminology. Just Kriss gives up early info in the avsforum as a bit of a heads up to the coming article
     
  24. Dak

    Dak
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    I think I am right in saying that you won't get CUE with an 868 into the Dom20H that you want later as the Dom will do the job of correcting the error.

    Can't get technical but that is what I have been told....
     
  25. gandley

    gandley
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    well thats a yes and no.

    if you use component via interlaced to the domino20h then yes CUE will be filtered.

    If you use HDMI then no it wont be filtered as HDMI bypasses the dom20H`s faroudja chipset(Hence you cant pass 480i or 576i over HDMI in this case, or with most pjs it seems with HDMI/DVI) so then it will not be filtered

    again if you set the player to progressive via component it will bypass the Faroudja chispset, so no filter

    Hope that Helps
     
  26. Dak

    Dak
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    'Helps' is subjective;)

    I have the Dom 20H run on component from a pio 868. I want an HDMI cable but the 17m run I need is a problem as no HDMI cables are available..:confused: :confused:

    From whaat you are saying I may upgrade to an HDMI cable but have a worse picture :confused:

    Don't fancy that......
     
  27. gandley

    gandley
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    well its one of those things you wont know till you try, the cables are avaible from £20 per m to 200 per m so theres plenty of choice. and yes they are avaible (someone was flogging them on the av classifieds)

    id give it a go if i was you, i wouldnt say you would get a worse pic, maybe not a much better pic either but you will clear more pic noise. The chroma issue may not bother you.

    but definately try it with HDMI. you would be mad not too.
    least you would know

    you also need what i just bought a geffin adapter.

    this will allow a hdmi cable to be plug into ahdmi cable to increase length.

    but try a short one to see if it is worth the expense first
     
  28. paul1672

    paul1672
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    does anyone know if this dvd player is dvi compatible with the sony hs-10 pj?
    many thanks
    paul
     
  29. MJeeves

    MJeeves
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    I have recently purchased a Pioneer 868i and due to the CUE problems in earlier units I asked my dealer for a newer model. When it arrived it had a manufacturing date of March 2004 and the firmware is version 1.406 (the most recent firmware being 1.506 I believe). Will this machine I've just bought be blighted by CUE?

    P.S. Sorry, but I don't yet have a display to see as my Sim2 RTX is delayed in installation.
     
  30. gandley

    gandley
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    yes but only on some discs, nothing to worry to much about
     

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