Pioneer DV-747a - it won't play DVDs!

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by inkinoo, Jul 15, 2004.

  1. inkinoo

    inkinoo
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    Hi,

    Could anyone offer some advice on a Pioneer DV-747a that won't play DVDs?!?

    It will play CDs and VCDs perfectly but everytime I put a DVD in it tries to load it and then just ejects it. As we got it just over 2 years at a cost of £800 we're a little miffed it doesn't work.

    AVLand didn't seem to care when I phoned them, which shocked me. According to local trading standards they are in breach of the Sale of Goods act. Pioneer tried to help but once I told them it had the multi-region mod they weren't too pleased.

    Any ideas gratefully received.

    Thanks,

    Gerard
     
  2. stevelup

    stevelup
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    I'd be inclined to persue the retailer - 2 years is not acceptable durability for an £800 DVD player.
     
  3. inkinoo

    inkinoo
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    Well if it comes to it then that is what I will do but it would be nice if there is an easy solution.

    AVLand's attitude has shocked me. I've ordered a lot of equipment from them because their service and knowledge has always been excellent. Shame they don't care now.

    G
     
  4. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Try using a cleaning disc first - perhaps the lens is just dirty and thus the laser can't focus. Pioneer players usually have a dual-pickup, hence this might explain why CDs can be read but not DVDs.
    In the worst case the pickup is broken, that would be expensive to repair.
     
  5. Kingsley

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    The Pioneer DV-747 only came with a one year warranty and your player is now well out of that warranty by far.
    You purchased this product in February 2002.
    It is now July 2004.

    Pioneer have offered to fix the unit for you directly for only labour charges but as yet you haven't taken them up on this (Although this offer was over 7 months ago from what I understand of your original uk.media.dvd posting)

    It is unreasonable to expect the retailer (In this case not AVLAND Ltd but Hi-Fi Excellence Ltd- AVLAND LTD has only been operating as a shop since December 2003 and all previous sales are dealt with by Frank Harvey who owns Hi-Fi Excellence in Coventry ) to meet the cost of repair for something that only comes with a one year warranty.

    At the time of purchasing you were fully aware that the unit comes with a 1 year warranty.
    It’s unfortunate that your machine has developed a fault after this period of time, but as with any electrical component or mechanical item it is liable to wear and tear
    I have a Pioneer Laserdisc/DVD player that cost £900 and it failed after 15 months.
    It won’t read DVD’s now, but it will still cost me £200 should I wish to get it repaired.
    It’s unfortunate but the warranty was only for 1 year.

    You've come on here saying that we "don't care" completely out of the blue after 7 months of no contact for what seems to me, an opportunist and malicious attempt to bring our good name in to disrepute without just or valid reasons.

    We care about our customers and we work hard to keep them happy. Anybody who has had a fault with their purchase always receives help from us on the same day they complain to us.
    If their purchase is not covered by the warranty we still aim to help the Customer by contacting the Manufacturer for them, or giving advice.

    If you want to talk to me you can on 01933 442222 or email me through the link on our site and I will try to help and advise you as much as I can.

    Kingsley Smith
    Managing Director
    AV LAND Ltd
     
  6. inkinoo

    inkinoo
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    Kingsley,

    You are very much mistaken.

    Pioneer offered to look at the unit free of charge BUT will only fix the player with labour only charge if the fault is with the player and not with the multiregion mod. I'm arranging with Pioneer to look at the player but their technical guys seem to think it is to do with the multi-region mod, something not installed by Pioneer.

    And you do clearly not know the Sale of Goods act which states that it is the retailer that is liable and NOT the manufacturer. It is as simple as that. I was told on the phone that it only has a one year warranty and the retailer was not liable.

    Read this:

    http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm

    "It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract"

    Pioneer are helping me out because they are a nice company and want to maintain a good brand image. You say "it is unreasonable to expect the retailer to meet the cost of repair for something that only comes with a one year warranty". Whilst that may be the case, the law does not agree with you.

    Gerard
     
  7. inkinoo

    inkinoo
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    Tried that, sadly not working.

    It's a pain in the bum (and one I haven't given too much attention because of personal issues). Just want to get the player working again because it is an awesome player.

    G
     
  8. Kingsley

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    Of course your warranty is with the retailer in the first instance, but the fact is the warranty only covers it for manufacturing defects within 1 year.

    Your player developed a malfunction out of the warranty and did not have this fault during the warranty period or at the point of sale.

    The sale of goods act states that that you have up to 6 years to seek damages for items that were faulty “At the time of sale”
    Example: You bought a product didn’t use it for 3 years, started using it and found a fault with it.
    Although the onus is on you to prove that you didn’t use the product and that the fault was there at the point of sale.

    This is clearly not the case as you admit yourself that the player worked fine for over a year, you have no legal case.

    Your player was not faulty at the point of sale as you had it working for over a year and a half perfectly
    The multi region modification is a software only one and has no bearing on the laser assembly for playing CD’s, I can tell you categorically this has not caused the fault.
    If you had actually spoken to us about this rather than just posting on here and usenet then we could have helped you with Pioneer’s diagnosis of the fault and it’s cause.

    If you need us to talk to Pioneer then we can, however it seems strange that you are doing this 7 months after you originally posted to usenet here?
    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=a...$2266uq$1@ID-201354.news.uni-berlin.de&rnum=1
     
  9. inkinoo

    inkinoo
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    I did speak to you. You told me to go away and that it was nothing to do with you.

    Your reading of the Sale of Goods act is totally wrong. You can't even read the advice from the site. I quote:

    "The "fault" may not become apparent immediately but it was there at the time of sale and so the product was not of satisfactory standard."

    Two years use for a £800 player is not acceptable. Your attitude speaks volumes. Trading standards think you are in the wrong so I guess I will see you in court.

    G
     
  10. Kingsley

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    I don’t see what basis you have for saying that the unit was faulty at the point of purchase when it worked for over a year and a half flawlessly.
    I've offered to help you, but you have turned down this offer and threatened legal action.
    I would never tell a customer to "Go Away" and I haven't spoken to you on the phone or by email.

    If you wish me to help you the offer is still there.
     
  11. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    Sorry your player isn't working Gerard. It is annoying when spending that kind of money. But with regard to the quote from the sale of goods act, it is not stating that the fault with your machine was there at the time of sale, it is saying that 'if' that were the case, you would have 6 years to claim. It doesn't mean that any fault that ever occurs, must have been there at the time of sale, otherwise everything would automatically be guaranteed for 6 years, whether it cost £800 or £5.
     
  12. inkinoo

    inkinoo
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    When I said 'you' I meant you as the company. As I have stated previously, I have spoken to Frank.

    If I had broken this unit then I would have claimed through my home insurance. But all I've done is use it, and as I've been away from home for a while, I haven't actually used it that much. 2 years

    You keep on saying that because of the warranty expiring then it is nothing to do with you. That is simply not the case. I haven't taken up your offer of help because I don't see what you can do. What help can you give me?

    Gerard
     
  13. gossp

    gossp
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    No offence Gerard but I think you are being completley unreasonable here. I personally would interperate the act the same as the others. The fault occured out of the warrenty period therefore you are not covered! Unfortunatly that's life. Why don't you take Kingsley up on his offer? What have you got to lose?!
    Best of luck in resolving your problem.
     
  14. inkinoo

    inkinoo
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    Gossp, this is the advice from Trading Standards:

    http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0054-1111.txt

    "Q. I bought a fridge/freezer about 18 months ago, and the freezer section has completely failed. I went back to the shop, but they refused to do anything as it was outside the original 12 month guarantee. What are my rights?

    A. Firstly, when you buy goods from a shop, you enter into a contract under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended). This holds the shop liable for up to six years after purchase (Limitation Act 1980), providing that you can show that the problem is down to an unreasonable fault and not normal wear and tear. Secondly, remember that the guarantee is in addition to these statutory legal rights. Don't be taken in by the shop's argument here - they are using the issue of the guarantee as a red herring to try to avoid their legal obligations toward you. See our leaflet 'Buying Goods' for more information on your rights."

    Now would Kingsley or anyone else like to argue against that being the exact situation I am in?
     
  15. gossp

    gossp
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    Well I appologise. I should read more carefully. A useful thing to know for us all. I guess now if you can prove its an unreasonable fault you should have no problems at all. However it might be easier just to get Pioneer to deal with it. Best of luck. I hope you get a satisfactory result. I am interested to see what happens.
     
  16. Kingsley

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    It’s not the exact situation at all.
    An "unreasonable fault" would be something that would not happen due to normal wear and tear.
    For example an inherent fault with all DV-747's that caused them all to stop playing CD's, if the unit was manufactured below its specifications or if the unit malfunctioned in a catastrophic way (Caught fire, electrocuted somebody etc…)
    The fault you have is wear and tear and unless you have undisputable evidence to the contrary.
    Which as it has not even been examined by Pioneer or anybody qualified service agent you are in no position to claim this.
    It’s up to you to prove that it’s not wear & tear.

    Pioneer made an offer to you 7 months ago to look at the unit & repair it for labour costs only, but you have not taken them up on this.
    If it’s so important that you would consider taking legal action, then I fail to see why you have not gone had Pioneer look at the unit or contacted us in the last 7 months?
    Yet you choose to post all this on here out of the blue as if the problem has just happend.

    I’ve offered to help you today with Pioneer and your worries about the multi region mod, but you still haven't called.
     
  17. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    I too apologise Gerard. I'm quite surprised to read that. I do not understand why we don't here more about it, from programs like watchdog.

    As you have quoted, it mentions 'unreasonable fault' as opposed to there being a clear fault at the time of purchase, which could be difficult to prove.

    How one is supposed to determine whether something is an unreasonable fault, as opposed to normal wear and tear I have no idea.

    It seems you certainly have a case. Good luck.
     
  18. inkinoo

    inkinoo
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    You are suggesting that a DVD player stopping playing DVDs after two years is not an unreasonable fault? I'm glad you are re-enforcing why I don't want to buy from you anymore.

    I've been out of the country and therefore unable to send the player in. The player will be sent to Pioneer and I will find out what the situation is. If I have to pay for it to be repaired then I will start court proceedings to recover that cost from your company.

    I say again, how can you help me? What words of wisedom can you provide me with to get the player working again?

    Your attitude sinks if you think two years is an acceptable life for £800 DVD player. Do these units have hour timers like projectors and plasmas? You'd see that I've hardly used the player.

    Let's see what Pioneer say.

    Gerard
     
  19. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    I don't agree that a fault is only unreasonable if it occurs to all units, or if it causes fire or electrocution.
    The wording of the law doesn't seem to suggest that the buyer must have undisputable proof. Maybe we do have to get the unit examined before we're able to claim, I don't know. I would imagine only the court could deside whether it was wear and tear or unreasonable fault - time to look up some case law.
    It doesn't matter does it. The stress of life or the joys of life got in the way. Doesn't make one lose their rights.
    Obviously you are trying to help here Kingsley, and maybe Gerard should take your offer up, but he has stated that he has had less helpful service from your colleagues, which is perhaps why he hasn't been in touch for the last few months.
     
  20. Kingsley

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    You are being totally unreasonable even though I’ve offered to help you, please do get in touch should Pioneer have problems with repairing the unit.
    Pioneer are in the best position to be able to say whether the fault is wear and tear or not.
    They could have told you that 7 months ago and we could have helped you once you had sent it to them 7 months ago.
    But you haven’t contacted us at any point this year.

    Have you explained to Pioneer that the unit has hardly been used as you did not mention or indicate this to us or in any of your previous posts?

    What you are saying is that any product that fails up to 6 years after it was purchased has to be repaired by the retailer free of charge, this is ridiculous and would result in nobody selling any product of any description.

    If you want my help the offer is still there, but it seems by the tone of your posts you are only intent on confrontation.
     
  21. Mike Delvaux

    Mike Delvaux
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    Hi

    The law was changed in 2002.
    The Sale & Supply Of Goods To Consumers Regulations 2002.
    You have the legal right to,
    choose repair,replacment,partial or full refund or compensation if a fault appears within 6 years(5 years Scotland) and it's reasonable for goods to last tha long.
    If you complain
    1.goods must be faulty at time of purchase.
    2.If you complain within 6 months the onus is on retailer.
    3.If you complain after 6 months the onus is on you to prove goods were faulty.
    4.This amendment to the law means every one has the right to repair or
    replacment where goods are faulty. Now the onus is on the retailer to prove that a fault was not present at the time of purchase. Mike.
     
  22. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    Are you saying that points 1, 2 and 3 are now superseded by point 4?

    Have you looked that up, or do you study/work in law?
     
  23. inkinoo

    inkinoo
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    You keep on offering help, I keep on asking you what help you can give. So far you haven't answered and you have made it clear that you don't think the law applies.

    Pioneer are in the best position but I was hoping that this error could be fixed without the hassle of sending the unit in. My experience with AVland before this discussion has been one of not caring and ignoring the law. During this discussion it's clear that you do not want to follow the law.

    We will see what Pioneer can do and take it from there.

    G
     
  24. Reiner

    Reiner
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    inkinoo and Kingsley, please slow down before this gets out of hand; I believe this is not the place and time to discuss the legal issues or threaten law suits.

    To the others:
    It's not possible for us to judge who is right and wrong, in particular since most of use are no lawyers. We have to take inkinoo's word for what he said (not that I doubt him) but then Kingsley has also offered his help, repeatedly, so the issue should be resolved between the two of them and perhaps Pioneer.
    inkinoo might choose to get in touch with Pioneer first or directly contact Kingsley, the phone number was provided for this purpose.

    Kind regards,
    Reiner
    Moderator
     
  25. mjcairney

    mjcairney
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    Wise words Reiner.

    Let's hope an amicable solution is reached.

    regards,

    Martin.
     
  26. Mike Delvaux

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    No my work is nothing to do with law, what I wrote last night was extracted
    word for word out of Which magazine,and I must admit it seems very contradictory. Has any body else had this problem that you no of ?.
    Because if it's not a known problem,their must have been a weakness
    in a component or two for the problem to have occured in the first place.
    I would say though that as it's out of warentee that the problem is'nt
    AVlands but Pioneers,AVland did'nt put the thing togeather the problem with
    a faulty component must be Pioneers.
    You should ask Pioneer how long they expect their players to last,I mean who
    wants to pay out £800 for it to last only that short amount of time ?.

    Mike.
     

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