Pioneer Appalling Customer Service

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duncan_smith

Guest
Below is the battle I have been having with Pioneer with regards to my VSX-1016 amp, and the fact the website states the HDMI input processes sound. It does not

Just FYI if you are considering buying a Pioneer product.

(Start from the bottom!!!)


Customer (15/08/2006 09:49 AM )

Interesting

Not sure where this comes in on the customer service rating but not very high!

Think I will contact the vendor, send it back and buy some equipment from another manufacture.

Many Thanks for you appalling service, and making my mind up not to buy Pioneer products in the future.

This will be most useful on the AVforum site.
___________________________________________________________

Response (RJFCS) 14/08/2006 04:20 PM
Hi,

Thanks for your email.

If your dissatisfied regarding the performance of your system then we can only recommend that you contact the vendor regarding this, the specification of any product is liable to change and can only be used a guide.

We are sorry regarding the confusion regarding the specification of this product.

Regards.
Customer Relations
PIONEER GB LIMITED

This response is provided in good faith but Pioneer GB Ltd cannot warrant the accuracy or completeness of information given, its suitability for any particular purpose and it may contain technical or typographical errors. All liability of Pioneer howsoever arising is expressly excluded to the fullest extent permitted by law.

___________________________________________________________
Customer 14/08/2006 11:42 AM

Good Morning

I have not had a reply as of yet regarding my query.

Could someone clarify if there is something you can do with regards to the unit?

I would be looking to take this down the trade description act if I do not get a reply, and and answer to my question.

Looking forward to your reply

Best Regards

___________________________________________________________

Customer 11/08/2006 11:42 PM

Hi

Thanks for the reply.

This does not help in the fact I have bought a product using the Pioneer website as a guide.

And

The product does not do what it was advertised as doing, So I feel as a consumer with 3 Pioneer products (expensive products) that I have bought something that does not do what it said it would.

Please advise me on what you as a company can do with regards to the fact I have spent money on a product that has been mis-sold to me.

I realise this is the base Amp, but having spent £4000 on a TV and £1000 on the 868AVis. I feel as a customer I am not receiving a satisfactory response over this.

Looking forward to your response

___________________________________________________________

Response (RJFCS) 11/08/2006 02:44 PM
Hi,

Thanks for your email.

Thank you for pointing out the inaccuracies upon our website, we have taken steps to correct these faults and to also ensure that they do not happen again.

Regards.
Customer Relations
PIONEER GB LIMITED

This response is provided in good faith but Pioneer GB Ltd cannot warrant the accuracy or completeness of information given, its suitability for any particular purpose and it may contain technical or typographical errors. All liability of Pioneer howsoever arising is expressly excluded to the fullest extent permitted by law.

___________________________________________________________

Customer 11/08/2006 11:50 AM

Thanks for your Email

Your product description from the internet is

"With an HDMI interface (version 1.2), the VSX-1016V-S allows you to make a direct digital audio and video connection between your receiver and any other HDMI-capable source with a single cable. Digital to analogue conversions are made redundant and you get the benefit of pure, high resolution audio and visual quality."

It does not say in the description that sound is not processed from the HDMI lead.

Would it be fair to say that this is not an acurate description?

Many Thanks

___________________________________________________________

Response (RJFCS) 11/08/2006 11:36 AM
Hi,

Thanks for your email.

Audio and video is the idea behind HDMI but the 1016 amp is designed to come in at its 400 pound budget and to make that budget the system is designed to pass through the HDMI signals untouched.

To enable the amplification of the signal the costs of the amp would have to go up. The AX4AVi, AX4ASi, AX2AV and AX2AS amps have this level of function and cost much more because of it.

Regards.
Customer Relations
PIONEER GB LIMITED

This response is provided in good faith but Pioneer GB Ltd cannot warrant the accuracy or completeness of information given, its suitability for any particular purpose and it may contain technical or typographical errors. All liability of Pioneer howsoever arising is expressly excluded to the fullest extent permitted by law.

___________________________________________________________

Customer 11/08/2006 11:03 AM
Many thanks for your reply.

That is a shame, other than taht the amp is outstanding.
Is it possible to send the AMP back. Only had it for 1 day, and after spending £400 on it, I would expect the Amp to process the sound through the HDMI lead.
That is what HDMI technology is all about.

Many thanks

___________________________________________________________

Response (RJFCS) 11/08/2006 10:52 AM
Hi,

Thanks for your email.

In order to get audio from the DVD player from your amp you need to connect from the digital or analogue connections, the HDMI connection through the amp is purely a throughput, your amp can not amplify the audio signal present within the HDMI connection.

To enable the digital output on the DVD player you will need to disable the audio output via HDMI within the menus of the DVD player.

Only our higher range AV amps with more advanced HDMI switching and conversion options will be able to amplify the audio from this connection. More information regarding the HDMI connection on your amp can be found on page 44 of the user manual.

http://www.service.pioneer-eur.com/peeservice/RegistrInstrMan.nsf/search?openform&Modelnr=1016

Regards.
Customer Relations
PIONEER GB LIMITED

This response is provided in good faith but Pioneer GB Ltd cannot warrant the accuracy or completeness of information given, its suitability for any particular purpose and it may contain technical or typographical errors. All liability of Pioneer howsoever arising is expressly excluded to the fullest extent permitted by law.
___________________________________________________________
Customer 11/08/2006 09:50 AM
Good Morning

I have just purchased a VSX-1016s, which I am using with my 435-XDE and DV 490.

The only problem I am having is being able to listen to sound using the HDMI as a signal source. I have connected the DVD player via Input 1 on HDMI, and connected the Phono cables from the DVD player to DVR1 on the amp. I can not select the HDMI as a sound input. I was under the impression that I could listen to sound using the HDMI lead.

Presently, The video and sound are working but the sound is being sourced from the analogue connections. When signal select is put to digital, no sound is heard.

I can not see an option in the menu to select HDMI as a audio source

Could you please tell me if sound can be processed from the HDMI lead?
I can not understand why I have to make another connection, the HDMI lead was supposed to make the all other connection redundant?

I hope you can answer my query.

Best Regards
 

Helicon

Banned
Can i ask whether the amp purchased from a local store or mail order?
 

Llanowar

Standard Member
I don't think you can take a website as offical source of information, not legally. It states that most of the time.

Besides that if you are not content, just go to your vendor, that's the way it's supposed to go officialy. Not too much wrong here in my eyes.
 

jasper_mccrea

Active Member
What did you expect they might do? Make your 1016 process sound via HDMI? Send you a more expensive amp? I think it sounds like they've been quite reasonable. Send it back to where you got it under the distance selling regulations, and buy one that does what you want.
 

LV426

Administrator
Staff member
Indeed. If the product was mis-described, then your one and only contract for supply of the goods is with the retailer. It is their responsibility (even if not actually their fault) to provide you with a remedy.
 

dingwall

Banned
I don't think the customer service was appalling at all.

In fact, a clear and accurate written response after 1 hour of asking is impressive! They didn't even quibble that their information was misleading.

Go hassle the people who can do something about it - the shop.
 

Helicon

Banned
There's a couple of sides to this.

Firstly, you have the manufacturer's website that is misinforming customers. Based on this mis-information (i'm assuming) the customer has ordered the product from a website where there has been no communication reagrding the product, just a straight sale. As far as the customer is concerned, he's ordering the correct product. As far as the retailer is concerned, he's supplying the right product as it's the one the customer has requested, and assuming the customer has done their homework regarding it's suitability.

Everyone's in the right.

Bar one thing. Human error. We all get things wrong ocassionally, we're only human. having said that, manufacturer's websites should be 100% correct. Where else would you expect to find exact information on a product? Because of this mistake, the customer has to mess about sorting out returning the amp, the retailer has to unexpectedly sort out refunding it, and also has a used amplifier in their stock, which they're going to lose money on.

This is one of the drawbacks of internet shopping. If the customer had used his local store, the information he needed would've been known before the sale. Even if the salesperson didn't know off the top of their head, it doesn't take long to find out.

I wonder what the percentage of returns is for internet sales on electricals is for unsuitable items. And all because of a lack of research or communication.
 

clayts450

Active Member
Nothing 'appalling' that I can see, as others have noted.

Worth noting that Pioneer, to their credit, do have on-line manuals for all their products via the support section - one of the few that do bother (Yamaha are good too).

Any road - the item does not do what it was described to do at the time of the sale and therefore you can return it to the shop :)
 

jasper_mccrea

Active Member
clayts450 said:
Any road - the item does not do what it was described to do at the time of the sale and therefore you can return it to the shop :)
Well, the website or shop may or may not have had a detailed desctiption. They buyer seems to have relied on the Pioneer site for his information, and hasn't asked the place where he bought it from.

But I think under the distance selling regs, he still has the right to return it within 14 days.

Caveat Emptor and all that. It should be a lesson to us all in doing some more detailed research. Asking if the product does what you want on a suitable audio visual forum, if you could find one of those, would seem to be the bare minimum of research you should do before committing to purchasing sight-unseen.
 

Solidstate

Active Member
Is it such a big deal to attach an optical or Co-ax lead as well as the HDMI to each device. You have to do this with SkyHD anyway as it doesn't send the 5.1 sound via its HDMI. The max number of extra leads you would need would be two (one for each HDMI) and the operation of these is invisible once you assign them to the appropriate HDMI input.
The back of an amp always looks messy anyway - another two leads aren't going to matter and I'm not sure you'll get the features you want for £400.

Is there another reason you don't want the amp - you can't really get this upset about two leads you'll never have to look at can you?:confused:
 
D

duncan_smith

Guest
Yes, but it is the principle of the matter.

We have all been promised this amazing new technology, were by all leads would be made redundant other than the HDMI.

The birds nest that is our AV stand becomes tidy (ish)

Digital sound and audio in one neat package.


We have different manufactures like

sky only outputing video by HDMI
Pioneer, denon etc only switching the video.

Whats the point of bringing out products that do not do what they should do in the first place?

The Amp is great, sounds lovely, but just pee'd off about the whole description thing.

Been waiting for nearly 2 years for a reasonable priced HDMI amp to run with my plasma, and I just of well bought one a few years ago that would of done the same thing.

Obviously just my opinion, not many others agreeing on this.
 

dingwall

Banned
If you wanted sound through HDMI, you are entitled to have expected it.

What I don't get is why you are so pee'd off and why you are labelling Pioneer service as appalling. Pioneer answered your queries quickly and politely. They apologised to you and have said they will indeed change the description for future. What more do you want?!

They correctly advised you to contact the shop. Have you done this yet?
 

Knyght_byte

Novice Member
i can sympathise with the OP, he was technically (in the literal sense..lol) mis-sold....as such the retailer should take the unit back, but at Pioneers cost, not the retailers.....however thats from a moral standpoint..

from a legal standpoint Pioneer will have a disclaimer on their website stating that information may not be wholly correct....so sadly for the OP there is no legal backing he can get.

Not sure about the distance selling reg tho, as the product wasnt as stated then it should still fall under that.......i'd say do a good read up on the regs and their limits.......then get in contact with the retailer. Yes Pioneer did screw up, but at least as said they were honest in their mistake.

hope you get some kind of resolution anyhow mate :)
 

misae

Active Member
Unde the distance selling act you have 7 days from date of receiving the product to make up your mind whether this was the product you intended to purchase. Within those 7 days you are allowed to send it back to the retailer for a full refund for no reason whatsoever provided the goods are in original condition.

This is called the cooling off period.


As to what has happened here, the customer was sold goods that did not match the manufacturers description and therefore has a claim to return the goods and get a refund. Depending on how long he has had the item and what condition it is in - i.e. you cannot bring up a claim 2 years after purchasing an item and expect a full refund (or any refund).

This is all AFAIK and I am not liable for any information provided nor am I guaranteeing the accuracy of the specs listed as they are meant to be used as a guide only.. and please dont sue me.. ;)
 

dingwall

Banned
I think the shop will offer a refund and take it back if things are explained properly. The OP seems more bothered about badmouthing Pioneer than asking them though...! One shouldn't beat around the bush when £400 or whatever is at stake in my opinion...

If the shop starts demanding for return delivery to be paid, then contrary to what some have said Pioneer's website does form part of the contract with the retailer (it counts as a Public Statement). While the retailer doesn't have to know about incorrect facts printed in obscure material or in the depths of a 100-page manual, he would probably have to concede that he can't claim ignorance (in the legal sense) over claims made by the Pioneer UK website. A refund is then in order.

Personally, seen as the OP loves the amp so much otherwise, I'd just ask the shop to post me out a nice digital cable instead as redress..
 

Badger0-0

Distinguished Member
Sorry, I can see the OP's POV here.
If Pioneer can't get it right, who can?
The least they could have done, IMO, was send an instruction to the retailer to sort it, at Pio's cost.
Why should the retailer suffer the cost for Pio's mistake?
I too, was under the impression that HDMI covered audio.

I agree the contract is with the retailer, but from a PR POV, with a company that turns over billions and thinking about a customer who is obviously loyal, it wouldn't have hurt, IMO.

As the OP says, he won't deal with them anymore.
It won't be the OP who loses out, I'm sure.
Says it all, IMO.

Looks like I'm in the minority though.
 

dingwall

Banned
The retailer is entitled to, and no doubt will, recover the costs from Pioneer.

To expect Pioneer to contact the retailer telling them to then contact you in turn is a bit silly in my opinion. Just phone them/drop an email...

The only valid grief in this case is that a misleading description was on the website, and hardly a serious one at that. "Apalling customer service", "my battle with Pioneer", "never buying Pioneer again" just seems a ridiculous over-reaction to a simple mistake to me. So much so that's why I'm posting about it - I really couldn't care less about the ins and outs of someone's dealings and purchasings otherwise.
 

Badger0-0

Distinguished Member
If I'd spent £5000 plus and never got joy, I'd think the same as the OP.
And I certainly wouldn't buy from them again.

As for a company contacting a seller, it does happen, or at least, used to.

Each to their own I suppose.

EDIT:

I come from an old fashioned world, where "my word is my bond".
I'd guess you're a bit younger than me.
 

dingwall

Banned
Have you read the emails and responses and their timings?

Quite what joy he hasn't had or what his problem is, I'm not sure!
Just because they didn't offer to contact the shop (and weren't asked to even do so)?! That's crazy. I hope you never experience genuinely poor customer service lets put it that way!
 

Badger0-0

Distinguished Member
In my opinion, the product was mis-sold, simple, by the manufacturer.
They can have all the disclaimers they want.
How much do you think they spend on their website?
They could easily, from a PR point of view have sorted it to keep the OP happy, simple.
If you can't see that, well what can I say?

It might sound stupid here, but here's an example:

Many moons ago, my mom bought an old chocolate bar, "Bar Six".

There was something wrong with it, so she sent it back.

A couple of weeks later, behold, a big box full, was sent to her.

She said to me "What they did that for, I don't know. But all my mates enjoyed them with me".

Much better than ":censored: you", I'm sure you'd agree.

Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree.
 

Knyght_byte

Novice Member
Mod Comment:

Closing this thread, OP has a grievance, has contacted Pioneer who apparently responded within reason from their point of view, general consensus would be the OP needs to take this to the retailer to sort out. Any further discussion here will only lead to debate over the rights and wrongs of advertising structure and implications of mistakes arising within and their relation to purchasers of AV goods. That is a discussion for the AV General Chat forum, not here or normal General Chat.

cheers,
Knyght
 
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