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PIONEER 747, DENON 2800 or TOSHIBA 950E

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by stewarthollyhead, Apr 2, 2002.

  1. stewarthollyhead

    stewarthollyhead
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    I want the best picture and sound with the least layer change?

    also sacd or dvd-audio is nice.

    which would you guys recommend?
     
  2. ian_guinan

    ian_guinan
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    No SACD or DVD-A on the Denon so maybe that's not the one for you (unless you wait for the up+coming 3800)

    Ian Guinan
     
  3. Reiner

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    Just to remind that there will be a MkII version of the 2800 out soon ...
     
  4. graham.myers

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    I asked my local dealer (SevenOaks @ Leeds) about the up and coming MK II, heres what they found out for me...

    The MKII will be launched July/August and will be identical to the MK I except for a replacment progressive scan chipset. Price to be confirmed.

    the 3800 will be launced in a few weeks including the 2800 MK II chipset with some other bits and pieces from the DVD-A1 flagship and features DVD-audio. price around £1k

    DVD-A1 due in a few weeks also.

    apparently the new chip set is thin on the ground so stocks may be limited.

    Thanks to Richard at SevenOaks for the info.
     
  5. stewarthollyhead

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    Thanks to you all on this...

    I think the problem remains that they are all good players, its just hard to actually get them all in one room at the same time to compare them. That coupled with the new toshiba 950e which is coming out shortly, I am really stuck
     
  6. MattJTC

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    Does this mean the MKII will be able to do PAL progressive scan?? If so what type?

    Matt
     
  7. Bonesy

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    I am/was holding out for the mark II, but if the Sil 504 is the only difference, I am not sure what the benefit will be. Perhaps it's just an inline rev due to lack of 503 chipsets?

    Surely it will only be able to do PAL prog if someone is kind enough to create a hacked firmware for it, as with the MkI. I doubt the current hack will work.

    Also, if the mpeg chip isn't changed I expect the chroma bug will still be there?

    Perhaps the best idea is to try and pick up a discounted mkI, at least then you can be sure of getting PAL prog out of it,
     
  8. graham.myers

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    what Richard @ SevenOaks found out for me verbatim was...

    "The DVD2800mkII will be launched in about July/August, it will be identical to the mkI except for a new chipset for progressive scan, the result should be an improved image when using progressive."

    Now he says chipset not chip, so the Chroma bug may also be fixed. Not being that technical in this area I can't really comment. Do you get chroma problems on component or only on S-Video and composite feeds?

    I'm sure the German guys who hacked the MK I firmware will have a MK II flavour out pretty quckly.

    As for the change of the chipset due to shortage of the original chipset doesn't ring true with other comments the dealer made, namely that the new units will be thin on the ground due to lack of the new chipsets.
     
  9. Bonesy

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    Hi Graham,

    Yep, agree with your comments, chipset probably does mean several, and they're bound to have a go at fixing the chroma bug, if the feedback on this site is anything to go by.

    Yeah, chroma affects component, I believe. Not sure about the German guys getting a new hack out, depends on whether they relied on insider info, etc.

    sorry, I didn't mean the up rev was because of shortages of 503, rather that if Sil decide to revise a chip, they'll likely encourage their customers to also move up to the new revision, that way they can end of life 503 sooner. So a rev due to the new availability of the 504, rather than lack of availability on 503.

    I hope this machine is good, I'm still torn between waiting and getting the old 2800. Next week I'll have my panny projector, up and running, via component and my current DVD player only supports scart. Not sure if I can hold out til august.
     
  10. graham.myers

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    I've only got my PS-2 running through component at the moment.
    I have a sony autochanger DVD that has only got s-video & scart. I also have an old pioneer 606D I imported years ago. This has got component out and it did look excellent. I'm waiting for the MKII. I hadn't even considered other makes & models. I think I'll do a search for the other models mentioned in this thread and see how they compare.

    It wont be until I've sold a stack of stuff on e-bay to fund the upgrade though. I had got £600 for my last sell-a-thon, but £400 went to a TiVo and the rest to my beer gut :) so I've to start again.
     
  11. Kane D Williams

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    Chroma bug is still there on ALL new Denon's, including flagship, although it has been lessened!

    Cheers Kane
     
  12. Samir

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    I have read that the new front loading TAG DVD will also have the Sil 504 chip so does this mean that there will be a stortage of chips for Denon & does any know of Denon will be offering an upgrade for mark 1 owners?
     
  13. Halcion

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    Let's see:

    Pioneer DV-747A
    =============
    - no de-interlacing on video flagged material
    - average cd-player
    - below average SACD player
    - some people complain about frame drop outs in PAL progressive mode (when hacked) in component connections
    - combs on film material (i.e. not top-notch de-interlacing)
    - bad case of chroma bug
    - no bass management for DVD-A/SACD sources.
    + good dvd-audio player
    + very good video quality otherwise

    Denon DVD-2800 (not Mk II)
    =====================
    - audio drop outs
    - drops frames occasionally
    - problems with dark scenes (flickering/shimmering)
    - PAL progressive hack work
    - chroma bug
    - no DVD-A nor SACD
    + good de-interlacing (better than Pioneer)
    + firmware updatable (although I don't see this version getting any more new updates)

    Toshiba SD-950E
    =============
    ? Is it even out yet?

    I'd also recommend you consider the Asian version of:

    Philips 962SA
    ==========
    + no chroma bug
    + PAL progressive works
    + no audio drop outs so far
    + no stuttering or dropped frames so far
    + firmware updatable
    + SACD playback good
    + CD playback above average
    + excellent de-interlacing (Sage Faroudja FLI2200) - only in Asian/American version
    + Plays all dvd formats (dvd-r, dvd-rw, dvd+rw, dvd+r)
    - a hassle to order from abroad (although service at www.hivizone.com is good, IMHO)
    - no mp3 playback
    - no RGB outputs (only component Y/Cb/Cr), unless you buy the euro version (it has RGB Scart), which doesn't have progressive mode (no Faroudja chip inside)

    It's a all about choosing the component with least compromises for you.

    There is no absolute perfect player, IMHO.

    cheers,
    Halcy
     
  14. Mikey K

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    :confused:

    V good thread! So now I have just got a great deal on a DV2800 (£470!) I want to make sure it does the business with the plasma which is next on the list (panny TH42PWD4 or PDS4229). Questions!!

    Where can I get the firmware upgrade and will it give me PAL progressive scan?

    what is the Chroma bug?

    Anybody any experice with it on component output to the above plasmas?
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Kane D Williams

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    Hi

    Not official Denon firmware upgrade, but a third party hack. Although, Denon are aware of it and Denon employees like Denon Jeff have no qualms about telling owners about it! I'm not sure where to get it, but try AVSforum.com if you don't get any joy here!

    The Chroma bug is inherent in most (not all) DVD players, and is the fault of the makers of the MPEG chips not the player manufacturers, although they should specify to the supplier that they don't want the bug in their machines!

    It is caused when the chip up-coverts 4.2.0 encoded material to 4.2.2 or 4.4.4. This includes Digital TV as well as DVD! It causes certain colours (red being the worst I think) to exhibit streaks and lines etc. I am no expert and this may not be the clearest explanation, but I hope it helps?

    Look at Toy Story (Chapter 4). As Woody speaks at the meeting, the red top of the tub will show it (and other parts of that picture). Also look at the Checker board (drafts), which should clearly show it?

    I have the SD900E which does have it, but very, very rarely does it interfere with my viewing on an 8ft wide picture!

    Cheers Kane.
     
  16. AlfaKhan

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    I must be a lucky SD900E owner, because I've never seen the infamous bug. (Over 6 months and the 100th movie mark now).

    Kane, can you tell me other specific material (Title, Region and Chapter) where you've seen it? I am really curious to check it out

    Txs.

    HB
     
  17. John_bones

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    A couple of points for Halcion the arguments need to be fair.

    Does the Pioneer play all formats?

    Yes

    Chroma Bug, how noticeable is it on the Pioneer?

    I have not noticed it yet after having mine since the beginning of February and playing approximately 50 films!!!

    What price point in Cd players would you consider the Pioneer to be at?

    It beats my Marantz CD63mkII Ki Signature last available for ~£300 which is now looking for a new home!!! I believe this was classsed as an outstanding player in it's class and pricepoint.

    I own it and I'll stick up for it for £750 it's an excellent piece of kit although SACD is still to be tried as is Progressive. There has been a lot of info flying about at the AVSForums basically saying it's not that good although reviews by UK press, audioreview members and the dvd doctor have all given good scores.

    Bass management is not required on my DVD-audio discs one of which is The Blue Man Group - Audio which is very percussive and utilises a lot of Bass however you can adjust your speakers between small and large giving some bass management. Highly recomended for giving your system a good run in DVD-A. SACD I havn't tried so I cannot comment on that although it uses a Sony chipset.

    My point here is to say try them for yourself and take everything you hear with a pinch of salt. Highly qualified people are bound to be aware of and see the chroma bug but does it mean that you will? Try and demo all of the players at home as that is the only way you will know which is best for you!!!

    Good Luck
    John a very satisfied 747 owner.
     
  18. Bonesy

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    Mikey K

    It may not necessarily be a firmware upgrade, as you might find this is an older version than is on your recently shipped player

    http://www.geocities.com/denondvd/

    now, please, where can I get a 2800 for £470?

    Cheers.
     
  19. Mikey K

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    Unfortunately it was a one off from Ebay I discovered after a month of waiting and search!

    Quote

    "Mint condition, still boxed and unused with full guarantees etc. My reason for selling this remarkable machine, is that it will not play my personal DVD-R (recordable)type discs"

    Added bonus it is a black one!

    Cheapest I have seen them is £658 on www.empiredirect.co.uk in gold and unchipped.

    :eek:

    I have downloaded the files from Geocities, any idea on how to apply them. My German is crap. I've got the bit about burning a CD with them on but got lost after that!
     
  20. MartinCo

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    Mikey K... do a search on Denon 2800 + firmware.. you should find 2-3 threads with proper english instructions.
     
  21. JSW

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  22. Bonesy

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    JSW, cheers but almost got burnt by LE concepts, as they are not an approved denon reseller, sourcing through germany. on my 2802 that is okay, but I'm getting the feeling that on the 2800, it's better to be covered.
    found 10 out of 10 productions doing it for 588, best so far.
     
  23. graham.myers

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    but applying the region/progressive hack wont help with denon support anyway unless you can reapply the factory shipped firmware and deny any knowledge of an upgrade
     
  24. Bonesy

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    maybe, although I had heard that hayden labs don't mind, and sometimes actually apologise if their testing dodgey units means updating the original hacked firmware. you're right- still a bit of a risk.
     
  25. Mikey K

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    Guys

    An update for you.

    There are no threads with english instructions on applying the hacks has any body done it and know what they are doing? I have all the hacks and the origional firmware but don't fancy a leap in to the unknown!

    Got my empiredirect price wrong £581.77 in gold!:eek:
     
  26. MartinCo

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  27. Mikey K

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    Thanks for that! Now to sort a plasma out!;)
     

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