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Pioneer 575 DVD Player or DVD Media

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by bbasra, Apr 9, 2005.

  1. bbasra

    bbasra
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    The issue i have is that i was watching a backup copy of a film about 2.30 hours long and towards the end, the film came unwatchable.

    Unwatchale in terms of picture was skipping and freezing.

    So i ejected the dvd-r disk, cleaned it, and watched it where it was skipping and it was fine again, but not for long, it starting skipping again.

    I took the dvd-r back out of the dvd player and the media was warm, so i let the media cool down for a bit and put it back in and it was fine again for about 3 mins and then it started skipping and freezing again........
    i then tried the dvd in my laptop NEC dvd writer and all was fine....

    ........Basically, is the DVD player the problem or the DVD Media?????

    Please Help.......it would really take the mick when you cant watch the ending of a film.....
     
  2. ktng

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    Difficult to say - it could be either really.

    Some players get warm and freeze/skip once that happens; have you tried playing the end of the offending disc since.

    It is more likely to be the media though. Your laptop DVD burner is likely to handle the media slightly better. Do you have Nero or DVD Info installed on your laptop that you could use to check the quality of the offending disc.
     
  3. bbasra

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    I have tried the disk again today from where it was skipping and it is fine.......

    Does this mean that the Pioneer DVD 575 is crap @ reading dvd-r when the disks get warm.......

    Here is the media info..

    Media Info :

    Media Information
    Disc Regions are 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8
    Media code/Manufacturer ID CMC MAG. AE1
    Format Type UDF 1.02
    Volume Name BLACK
    Application id ELBY CLONEDVD
    Implementation id ELABORATE BYTES
    Recording Date/Time (mm/dd/yyyy) 4/ 1/2005 23:56:15
    Format Capacity 4.37GB(4.69GB)
    Book Type DVD-R
    Media Type DVD-R
    Manufacturer Rated Speed 8.0x 11080KBps
    Available Write Descriptor CLV 5.9x 8112KBps
    Available Write Descriptor CLV 4.0x 5540KBps
    Available Write Descriptor CLV 2.0x 2770KBps
    Write Strategy Speed 4.0x 5540KBps
    2x Speed OPC beta 09
    2x Speed OPC power 0D
    2x Write Strategy field 1 11 87 78 90
    2x Write Strategy field 2 88 80 00 00 00 00
    4x Speed OPC beta 05
    4x Speed OPC power 15
    4x Write Strategy field 1 0D 0F 0A 09
    4x Write Strategy field 2 97 07 0F 0B
    4x Write Strategy field 3 80 00 00 00
    4x Speed OPC beta multi-pulse 05
    4x Speed OPC power multi-pulse 1B
    4x Write Strategy field 4 13 A8 89 65
    4x Write Strategy field 5 B6 89 88 80 00 00
    4x Write Strategy field 6 00 00 D0 00 00
    Data area starting sector 30000h
    Data area end sector 22EE9Fh
    Linear Density 0.267um/bit
    Track Density 0.74um/track
    Number of Layers 1

    Complete Media Code
    00000000 00 AA 00 00 01 40 C1 FD 9E D8 52 00 02 54 0D 0E .....@....R..T..
    00000010 88 9A 80 00 03 43 4D 43 20 4D 41 00 04 47 2E 20 .....CMC MA..G.
    00000020 41 45 31 00 05 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 06 09 0D 11 AE1.............
     
  4. ktng

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    My 575 is fine even when it's been on for a while - I can certainly watch 2 DVDR's back to back without any sort of problem, but it is on a shelve on it's own.

    Is your 575 on top of any other equipment (like amp/receiver or satellite/cable) as that could cause it to run very hot.

    Have you done a media quality/read test on that particular disc, as apart from seeing it's an 8x CMC media (dvdrhelp shows burn/playback reliabliltiy of CMC MAG AE1 to range from mixed to good) it doesn't show if there is a problem with the disc.
     
  5. bbasra

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    my dvd player sits onto top of a graphic EQ on a glass self. there is about 1 inch gap in between the dvd player and the next self and plenty of space around it.

    Do your dvd's get warm/hot after playback? which media do you use?

    i bought my dvd player from richer sounds about 2 months ago and have not really used it properly, watched about 8 dvd's in total and others dvd-r's have also skipped to, to be honest and it always happens towards the end of the disk which makes me really cheesed off.

    at first, i also thought it was the media. i have now used bulkpaq, this one and tdk and the same results. i use a nec 3250 dvd writer with the modfied firmware for better media support.

    Should i get my dvd player replaced for another one????????
     
  6. jtf

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    have used tons of dvd-r/dvd+r and dvd+r dual layer and i have never had a prob. the kids have watched dvd's all day and they have all been fine.the only thing is cmc media isn't the best in the world. use a good media such as ritek go4/go5 and burn at slow speeds.
     
  7. superpixel

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    I had slight problems with the Pioneer and DVD-R's - they played through fine, but skipping chapters were very slow, and navigating through the disc a lot (eg 10 skips in one minute) froze the player up. Every single other player I have (5 of them, from all sorts of manufacturers) has no such problems.

    I'd pop down to Argos, buy a Toshiba 140, see how it plays your discs, then take the player back for a refund. You'll know if its the disc or player then. :)
     
  8. Stompa

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    Media code/Manufacturer ID CMC MAG. AE1

    CMC media has a pretty dire reputation and is best avoided IMO.

    There's some useful info here:

    www.nomorecoasters.com

    Stompa
     
  9. ktng

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    Well it doesn't sound as if heat should be a problem.

    My discs are generally warm after playback, but not very warm or hot. Mine plays all media - most of my stuff has been discs using Ritek G04/G05, Fujifilm03 & MCC02ORG20 dyes.

    Whilst Nomorecoasters provides some useful general information, it doesn't look like the site has been updated for quite some time (i.e. there is no mention of Ritek G05, which has been available for about 12 months, or MCC03), so you are better off using that in conjunction with Dvdrhelp where you should get reviews/feedback on not only your particular disc, but also other discs using the same dye. Nomorecoasters do have a guide on how to test the media for faults.

    However the media is only part of the equation as some dvd burners are better at burning some media than others. Again Dvdrhelp may help there as they also have reviews/feedback on dvd burners.

    Do you have any original dvd's that are over 2 hours long that you could check out.
     
  10. laser

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    The problem is probably related to the speed the DVD-R was originally burnt at.

    The 575 by nature of it's DVD drive can/should be handle DVD-Rs burnt up to 4x without problem although cheap media burnt at 4x on a PC which has implemented burn proof technology will probably result in skipping on the outlet area of the DVD-R as this is where data is burnt faster.

    My advice is burn DVD backups at 2x or 4x if you are sure your PC can copy the data at a rate where burn proof will nt be implementated to slow or stop the DVD writing process.

    The problem usually occurs due to the faster write process introducing more errors into the recording. There is software available which will allow you to check the error correction rates on DVD-R recorded at sppeds 2x to 16x. You would be horrified to see the number of errors and it's wonder that today's DVD players can even read the DVD's.

    Hope that helps.

    Try burning at 2x first. If you are and are using good, branded, media then your drive maybe faulty but I suspect it's the recording rather than the player.
     
  11. ktng

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    That's interesting laser. I have seen advice elsewhere (haven't found the articles yet though) that says that burning discs at speeds slower than it's rated speed introduce errors into the burn and discs should therefore been burnt at their rated speed. Out of interest, what software are you using to check error correction rates.

    My 575 will play all the discs I have burnt at 8x whether they be dvd-video or data (mpg, divx, mp3). I've had no problems with media burnt at 12x either, but haven't tried any 16x media yet.
     
  12. Stompa

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    Whilst Nomorecoasters provides some useful general information, it doesn't look like the site has been updated for quite some time

    Good point, I'd not spotted that. It actually says at the top of the screen 'Site last updated on September 7th 2004'.

    Stompa
     
  13. Ged

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    Just to add to all the valid points mentioned... There are many variables, such as media quality and burn speeds etc but at the end of the day, one player will be better/worse at playing -/+R discs.
    I had a Sony 900 which skipped all over most discs, I have had many more players and each has a different tollerance.
    The only thing I have learned is to save the bad discs for reference when I buy a new player, the newer variants normally being better.
     
  14. bbasra

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    Thanks for all your help...... If it is bad media, then the pioneer 575 should always skip at that part of the disk... but thats not the case..... if i play the dvd ending now (dvd player has not been used and media is cool) it plays fine......

    i bought this dvd player to replace my old yamada because of the same problem, so i've just spent £100 for no reason.

    i have just bought some tdk's and verbatims dvd-r... we see how i get on with that and post the results
     
  15. Ged

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    Buying good quality, branded media is going to reduce errors. If it continues, try the problem disc on another player. You could have a DVD-R or software problem, why not ask a friend who has good burnt discs for a trial loan and do a swop, see if the problem replicates on either machine.
     
  16. bonzobanana

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    Its common for media to have more problems at the end of the disc. I know the tolerances are more critical at the end of the disc. The laser has to go faster to write at the end of a disc I believe because the data rate is higher.

    Its one thing where less often equals more because often the very cheapest dvd players are the best at reading a wide range of media. I think in china there is a high level of piracy and rough copies about so media compatibility is more critical. Contrast that to Sony who used to proactively make their dvd players less compatible with copied media as they were worried about piracy.

    However I'm sure the Pioneer will be upto the job given slightly better media or written on perhaps a better writer.
     
  17. bbasra

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    just run a test with the dvd that was skipping :

    General Information
    Drive: LITEON DVD-ROM LTD163
    Firmware: GDHA
    Disc: DVD-R ( !)
    Selected speed: Maximum
    PI errors
    Maximum: 397
    Average: 102.93
    Total: 1373488
    PI failures
    Maximum: 209
    Average: 4.34
    Total: 95872
    PO failures: n/a
    Jitter: n/a
    Scanning statistics
    Elapsed time: 5:08
    Number of samples: 102734
    Average scanning interval: 1.40 ECC
    Glitches removed: 20

    Quality Score = 0
     
  18. bbasra

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    Done some more testing and not good news.

    i backed up a film onto 2 types of dvd media, one verbatim and the other tdk. These are suppose to be some of the best dvd's.

    Both did not play towards the end... again the dvd's were hot. once the media was cool again, they played fine.... what the hell is happening....

    so i tried the original, that also skipped at one point..... this was the original...... i'm really stuck now.... :( :mad: :confused:


    What shall i do??? DVD player was purchased from Richer Sounds on the 24/2/2005.

    DVD Player was Manufactured in Nov 2004 occording to the manual.

    Please help.....

    If it is legal, i dont mind sending someone the disk to test it for me with their 575, if you don't mind watching Day after Tomo....
     
  19. bonzobanana

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    This is my guess at the situation and may not be up to much. Your dvd writer is pants! Its not recording the discs very well so the Pioneer is having to use excessive laser power to read them. Because of this the Pioneer is over heating and playing up even with original discs. Try updating the firmware on the dvd writer and if there is an option somewhere for it to power calibrate do so. It sounds to me like the recorder isn't fully writing. When you write a dvd the laser hits little chemical cells and they move or change shape. When too little power is applied they don't move very much so there is a struggle to read them. Does the Pioneer read and play a original dvd from beginning to end without problems when you haven't heated it up with poorly written dvd-rs?
     
  20. bbasra

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    My in-laws have a Pioneer 340 and the DVD's mine cannot play are perfectly played on the 340. :confused:

    I have a Nec Nd-3520 with the latest Modifed firmware and have been doing media quality tests with nero. The results end up with about 97% Quality.

    I have not tried playing an original from beg-to-end i don't think.

    I normally first do a backup, then play that and everytimes it fails. then i wait for that media to cool down and it plays fine for about 10 mins or so. Then i end up watching the original which also skipped like yesterday, but not as much as the backup copy.

    i'm not sure if ventilation will cause an issue as i have glass stand like the Alphason one and my dvd player sits on top of a graphic eq. So there is only about 1cm gap between the dvd player and the next glass self.

    Like i also mentioned above, the dvd's that skip will play in the Pioneer 340 Dvd Player and my PC.
     
  21. ktng

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    Well as I suggested originally I would try that, especially a disc over 2 hours long. As has been pointed out the laser normally has to work a little harder on recordable media, but if it still skips towards the end on an original then you either have a faulty player or you have a problem with heat.

    So what have you done differently between this

    and this

    I notice in the first quality test you were using your DVD-Rom - are you now using your Nec to get quality of 97%. If so you should revert to using the DVD-Rom to check as it will give more reliable/realistic results.
     
  22. bbasra

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    I have just tried playing a original from beg-to-end and it played fine, so it looks like i have and problem playing recorded media and heat as the dvd's that dont play in mine play in others.

    also, if i use verbatim, i still get 0% quality and if i use tdk, i get 97% quality. My old dvd-rom is crap and now the nec 3520 supports PI/PIF Scanning so i can test my media accuraly.

    i have posted this thread here about my media http://club.cdfreaks.com/showpost.php?p=963344&postcount=422

    summarsing....... i think i have a problem with both media and dvd player..... i will now try the tdk media in there which gave me 97% scan quality on the media and post the results.

    i dont think the pioneer or my pioneer is capable of reading recorded media very well.......
     
  23. nwgarratt

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    Verbatim unfortunately, are not as good as they used to be. Many batches are now made by CMC whio are not very good mnaufacturers. It doesn't explain the TDK's though.

    Also, burning at 8x or higher increases the chance of problems (expecially with media that could be better quality). I still burn at 2x and only do 4x on Ridisc G04 media. I have burnt a lot of these and never had a problem on any player.
     
  24. bbasra

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    I thought it may be the dvd player as these disks play fine in other dvd players, so i just got it exchanged today..... and the same problem is there....... :(

    Could it be the firmware version is old? My new 575 is manufactured in Dec 2004, what manufactuer date is yours ?

    Would it be usefull if i can post a dvd which skips for me to someone who has the 575 and no problems with it? i will pay for the postage cost and they can just keep the dvd and dispose of it afterwards.

    i think now the pioneer 575 is crap and playing dvd-r's and will try for a refund ..... i can buy quality media, however i cannot control other people buying decent media..... i need a dvd player which can play all types of media.....
     
  25. Malky1903

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    Played some DVDR's on my mate's 575 last night with no probs. They were Datawrite 8x Hub Printables. Dye manufacturer MCC 02RG20 is that's any help.
     
  26. bbasra

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    I have the problem with Verbatim Printable MCC 02RG20 dye.
     
  27. Maff et1

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    I've used MCC 02RG20 and Fuju Film 003 (both Datawrite) fine on my 575 (mostly Fuji but it seems you can't get them anymore).

    Heat can be a real problem for players, mines on a glass Alphason stand aswell, but on it's own. How hot does the graphic equalizer get? And whats on the shelf above? Have you tried taking the DVD player out from its position and putting it somewhere open?
     
  28. bonzobanana

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    The japanese brand models are normally never as good reading copied media even those designed and manufactured in china like the Pioneer 575.

    Most Pioneer 575 owners will be using commercial dvds most of the time.

    I've used tons of jap brand and chinese brand players and although there are exceptions the chinese brand stuff normally plays a wider range of media without problems.

    Players that are worth considering with regard playing copied media are brands like AMW, Ronin, Skyworth, Hinari, Yamada, Ellion, Starlogic, Prism, Pacific, Liteon, Cyberhome and of course many others.
     
  29. bbasra

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    The graphic eq and and pioneer dvd player fits just perfectly together into one shelf. the gap between the dvd player and shelf is about 1cm. On the next shelf is the sky box and philips wireless av sender....... may be the pioneer is not getting enought ventillation..... i will try moving it.

    can i post you a dvd to try it out for me please.... just want to make sure that the problem is not the dvd player.......

    TIA.
     
  30. bob1

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    I have the same problem on my 565 hop ,skip and jump :mad: ,ok i bought the film of ebay suspect copy but also does it with the slightest mark on some other discs i have (region 2) ,i now use my panasonic player thats allmost perfect but does loose it the odd time.My opinion is that the players are using poor drives and just arn't as good as they were a few years back.
     

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