1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Pioneer 545 Region Weirdness

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Jon Weaver, Oct 15, 2001.

  1. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2000
    Messages:
    6,002
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Born in Bristol but now in Newport, (for my sins)
    Ratings:
    +639
    I recieved my Pioneer 545 this weekend and am very happy.

    I played a number of R1 and R2 disks and everything seemed fine.

    However, this morning, my R1 copy of Star Wars: Phantom Menace arrived.

    I put it in and was surprised to be told "This Disk Is Formatted For Another
    Region".

    I tested a few other R1s and they were fine.

    So, following the instructions, I 'forced' the player into R1

    Now 'Star Wars' works!

    But so do my R2 disks, which doesnt' make sence.

    As a test, I put the player in R4 mode and played an R4 disk.. This worked fine. Also my R1 Star Wars doesn't. which is what you would expect.... But... Other R1s and R2s do too.!

    I have now put it back into R1 mode again, and the 4 or 5 disks I have tested work
    fine, but I wouldn't be surprised if some still don't work. I don't understand whats
    going on.

    Can anyone explain whats going on?

    Jon
     
  2. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2000
    Messages:
    6,002
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Born in Bristol but now in Newport, (for my sins)
    Ratings:
    +639
    But Star Wars does not have RCE!

    If it did, I would understand.. But what confused me was that when I forced my player into R1, it would still play R2s.

    When I put it in R4, it would still play R2s and some R1s!

    As I understood it.. If you have an R2 player, it will only Play R2s.

    What I am seeing is different from that.

    I have put it in R1 now and it seems to play everything, so its probably not a problem.
     
  3. hobbes

    hobbes
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    John,

    On another subject altogether, have you tried playing many cd's on the 545 as i am thinking of getting that one over the 444 as i was hoping to replace my old hi-fi as primary cd player and the 545 has hi-bit and that legato extra.

    Any general comments on its general performance to (dvd).

    Cheers,
    Shaun
     
  4. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,753
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +4,906
    It makes perfect sense, but would suggest that your R1 Star Wars has some sort of RCE.

    Put in a nutshell, RCE is a different way of checking region code (and rejecting ones that don't match). It's only used on R1 discs afaik.

    You put your player into R1 and it becomes a R1+multiregion(non-RCE) player - ie will play all R1 plus non-RCE others (which is, all of them!).

    Put your player into R2 and it becomes R2+multi(non RCE) ie will play all R2 and non RCE others. Put it into R4 and it is a R4+multi(non RCE) and so on.

    So, leave your player in R1 until you come across a RCE disc from another region (none of these have yet been made afaik).
     
  5. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,753
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +4,906
    And how, exactly, do you KNOW that Star Wars does not have RCE (or something like it)?

    On my Pioneer 737, I have exactly the same symptoms as you describe - if I manually switch it to another region than R1.

    These symtoms are IDENTICAL to the symptoms I get from two known RCE titles - Charlies Angels and Hollow Man. The only difference is in the graphic that is displayed - ie it's not a world map. But in all other respects the disc BEHAVES like an RCE one.

    Which leads me to conclude that Star Wars R1 has RCE or something like it.

    So, I say again, with these players, setting the region code to:

    R1 - means it will play ALL R1 plus any other regions that don't have RCE-style (or other "clever") coding.

    R2 - means it will play ALL R2 plus any other regions that don't have RCE-style (or other "clever") coding.

    and so on.

    I've never yet heard of any R2 3 4 5 6 titles with RCE-style (or other "clever")coding. Which means that, if you leave your player set to R1 it will probably play everything.
     
  6. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2000
    Messages:
    6,002
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Born in Bristol but now in Newport, (for my sins)
    Ratings:
    +639
    Whilst its clear that this disk has something like RCE, but clear that its not as 'clever' as RCE

    My reasons are:

    1. I know people who can't play RCE (i.e Charlies Angels) but can play Star Wars

    2. I understood taht when you are hit by RCE, you are shown a 'map' of the 6 regions.. A message stating "This is the wrong region" is not what I would expect.

    3. There is no warning about RCE on any site.

    I have been told that Star Wars does a 2nd Region check, which is why this problem occurs, but its not "RCE"

    Leaving it in R1, seems to do the trick for all the disks that I have tried.
     
  7. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2000
    Messages:
    6,002
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Born in Bristol but now in Newport, (for my sins)
    Ratings:
    +639
    hobbes_vin,

    No interest in using it as a CD player unfortunatly... I would be able to hear the difference between good and bad anyway.

    As this is the case, I would have been better off getting the 444, as it doesn't have the analogue audio enchancements, but I needed a 2nd SCART, so had to get a 545.

    But as a DVD player, I am very impressed.

    It also seems very good as an SVCD/MP3 player too.

    All in all, it gets my recommendation.

    But unless you need the 2nd SCART and the 'Legato Pro' stuff, the 444 is a bargin as it can be bought for £200
     
  8. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,753
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +4,906
    "1. I know people who can't play RCE (i.e Charlies Angels) but can play Star Wars"

    May be true. Which is why I said "some sort of RCE" and not "RCE".

    2. I understood taht when you are hit by RCE, you are shown a 'map' of the 6 regions.. A message stating "This is the wrong region" is not what I would expect.

    RCE is in the disc software and causes a fixed menu screen to be displayed which disallows access to other player or disc functions. Exactly what the picture on this fixed menu is, is up to the disc manufacturer. RCE doesn't imply "map of the world" - that's just what Columbia Tristar used.

    3. There is no warning about RCE on any site.

    ......and this is a reliable means of finding out......?

    Anyhow, it is clear that the disc bears some sort of enhanced region code detection, beyond the standard firmware check that is used on the majority.
     
  9. Kevo

    Kevo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,354
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +144
    I take it there was a good reason for purchasing the R1 version rather than the R2 version of TPM.

    Does is have a few minutes more of extras or something?
     
  10. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2000
    Messages:
    6,002
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Born in Bristol but now in Newport, (for my sins)
    Ratings:
    +639
    I can't remember why I bought the R1 copy...

    I think that it was cheaper and out a few days earlier.

    And whilst the R1 and R2 copies are ment to be the same, its a better bet that the R1 version has stuff that the R2 doesn't..

    And, as 90% of my collection is R1, I guessed that it maked sense.

    But, in this case, the R2 copy would have been just as good.
     
  11. LV426

    LV426
    Administrator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    12,753
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Somewhere in South Yorkshire
    Ratings:
    +4,906
    In my case, I bought R1 because:

    a) I use progressive scan and this isn't available from PAL sources
    b) it was £1 cheaper than R2 at Play247
     
  12. Reiner

    Reiner
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +13
    Just to add to the RCE issue: it merely depends on the player how RCE (or similar) is handled, or better on the multiregion modification.
    My player is RCE friendly in automatic mode as are most Pioneer players sold down here.
    Others need to be set manually to R1 and some still won't accept RCE discs (Toshibas' initial problems come to mind).
    So no "golden rule" here what has to happen and how it happens (world map etc.).
    Perhaps the label has secretly inserted some kind of protection ala RCE ... !?

    [ 17-10-2001: Message edited by: Reiner ]
     
  13. Kevo

    Kevo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,354
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +144
    Although I have a multiplayer DVD, I tend to go for R2 rather than R1.

    When ordering from the net I found R2 to be cheaper than R1 on the whole (esp from Play247).

    I take a 'wait and see' policy...

    For instance, I almost bought the Apes boxset on R1 last year, which was £59.99 from Play and Non-Anamorphic. I decide to wait (a whole year !) for the R2 version and not only was it £20 cheaper (£39.99), but it is also in Anamorphic, so it was DEFINATLEY worth the wait.

    I'm now waiting for the R2 version of T2, but it's looking like R1 version has the edge. So I guess it works both ways.

    I've also heard that R2 has the edge over pic quality with greater video resolution (can anybody confirm this?).

    R2 titles are coming out thick and fast these days, not like a year or so ago.

    Finally...

    I'd rather see my money spent on DVDs invested in the R2 end rather than the R1.

    Oh, and it's easier to make 'back-ups' to VHS of R2 than R1.
     
  14. Kevo

    Kevo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,354
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +144
    Although I have a multiplayer DVD, I tend to go for R2 rather than R1.

    When ordering from the net I found R2 to be cheaper than R1 on the whole (esp from Play247).

    I take a 'wait and see' policy...

    For instance, I almost bought the Apes boxset on R1 last year, which was £59.99 from Play and Non-Anamorphic. I decide to wait (a whole year !) for the R2 version and not only was it £20 cheaper (£39.99), but it is also in Anamorphic, so it was DEFINATLEY worth the wait.

    I'm now waiting for the R2 version of T2, but it's looking like R1 version has the edge. So I guess it works both ways.

    I've also heard that R2 has the edge over pic quality with greater video resolution (can anybody confirm this?).

    R2 titles are coming out thick and fast these days, not like a year or so ago.

    Finally...

    I'd rather see my money spent on DVDs invested in the R2 end rather than the R1.

    Oh, and it's easier to make 'back-ups' to VHS of R2 than R1.
     
  15. Reiner

    Reiner
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    Messages:
    3,315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    61
    Location:
    Germany
    Ratings:
    +13
    Yes, PAL has a higher resolution than NTSC with 625 lines against 575 but it would be difficult to see a difference on a normal TV.
    Then again you could argue that the NTSC refresh rate @ 60Hz is better for the eyes than PAL's 50Hz - so it does work both ways here, too.

    I guess in the end the quality depends more on the effort the label has taken during the mastering process than the technical specs.
     

Share This Page

Loading...