Pioneer 5100 and quality of analogue tuner

PhilipL

Well-known Member
Hi

I have been trying out a Pioneer 5100. I wonder if anyone else has noticed this.

Using the analogue tuner of the recorder and watching the live signal fed to a TV set via RGB shows problems with interlacing. On anything moving the interlacing patterns are quite noticeable and not normal and straight static edges are like a comb. Via S-Video there is not a problem. Recording and playing back is fine also, just seems to be the monitored signal has an interlace issue when being converted to RGB from the internal tuner.

Secondly the quality of the tuner seems rather ordinary and it struggles to resolve the same detail as the TVs own tuner. It was very bleached out on the default Video settings, turning down the black level helped to bring in some more detail in the highlights. There is also some strange mosaic-ing introduced over some areas of fine detail, and this is carried onto the recording.

I have a Pioneer 7000 that has none of these issues.

Anyone else noticed is?

Regards

Philip
 

kenfowler3966

Active Member
Have you tried an attenuator in the rf line. My tv used to do this and is now perfect with a 6db attenuator from maplins. The signal was too strong for the tuner input.
 

PhilipL

Well-known Member
Hi Ken

Thanks for the tip, I will try one, although to experiment I plugged in an indoor aerial that of course provides a weeker picture, the interlaced problems seem to be reduced, but I think this was just down to having a worse picture masking the problem.

The tuner interlacing is fine when fed to the TV via S-Video, just on RGB the interlacing is wrong, and overall the quality of the analogue tuner is nothing special.

There is no interlacing problem on playing back TV recordings, and playing normal DVDs the quality seems to be extremely good.

Regards

Philip
 

Leigh_1973

Active Member
The tuner on mine has just gone up the swanny after 2 1/2 weeks and im having to send it back this lunchtime :(

monday it was fine and recorded no problems, the recordings on tuesday were just a black screen, tried retuning the channels but it cant find them anymore, unlike when i set it up. all i got when trying to retune were garbled colour images covering the while screen

/sigh
 

Zacabeb

Active Member
The lack of 3D options for the comb filter is probably because of the PAL cycle making 3D comb filtering much harder to implement. Are there truly any particularly good comb filters for PAL?

It seems even broadcast equipment does a poor job with comb filtering, and most of the stuff I have seen through DVB-C that has been sourced from composite PAL feeds has been passively comb filtered. BBC World is one example, composite camera feeds from some studios at Swedish public service broadcaster SVT is another. They don't show any cross-color, but there is tons of cross-luminance instead.

But the reversal to notch filtering along the horizontal edge of the luminance multiburst in your pictures does make it look like the comb filter in the recorder is particularly 'stupid'. Even the comb filter in my Philips TV, with its analog delay lines, does a better job along vertical transitions. The problems with the comb filter in your recorder look very much like the comb filtering in my ATI All-in-Wonder Radeon card, so I can imagine what it looks like in motion. Awful...

I don't think it's a problem with your particular player, but just that the comb filter is stupid and probably just an integrated feature of some other chip (The video ADC's and color decoding may even be integrated into the MPEG2 encoder).
 

PhilipL

Well-known Member
Hi

The lack of 3D options for the comb filter is probably because of the PAL cycle making 3D comb filtering much harder to implement. Are there truly any particularly good comb filters for PAL?

Thanks for taking a look and your response. I agree filtering PAL isn't a clean process at the best of times, but for a £600.00 DVD Recorder it is particulary poor, well, unacceptable really.

I don't think it's a problem with your particular player, but just that the comb filter is stupid and probably just an integrated feature of some other chip (The video ADC's and color decoding may even be integrated into the MPEG2 encoder).

That is what I think, that rather than this being a broken recorder, the problem is a "characteristic" of this particular model, well that is how Pioneer would describe it I am sure, to the rest of us it is poor quality control. Surely they must have test patterns etc they use for testing the prototypes and spot testing on the production line? Possibly this might affect a small batch of models before corrections were made, this model is dated November 2003.

Also when watching the tuner live, the picture shows some weird interlacing problem (doesn't get recorded this way), and this only affects the RGB output.

All in all this is very disappointing.

Regards

Philip
 

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