Pioneer 5100 and 3100 contain A06

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by PhilipL, Dec 9, 2003.

  1. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    Just thought I would mention that the Pioneer 5100 and 3100 models contain the A06 PC Writer, a dual writer! The A06 also has hardware defect management so recordings on these models should be very reliable, I believe originally Rasack suggested it would only contain the A05 writer.

    So who will come up with a hack to support +R/+RW recording? I suspect Pioneer can enable this with a simple firmware upgrade already.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  2. pio5100h

    pio5100h
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    171
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +3
    If that is the case Pioneer may eventually (later models) support '-' as well as '+'.
    From a marketing point of view it would have benefits and drawbacks.
    But I don't think it will be that easy from a technical viewpoint, because a DVD stand-alone recorder also has GUI/functions and an entire OS built ino the 'firmware'.
    Also, the functionality has to adapt to the format(s).
    It surely won't make the recorders easier to operate.
    I believe the Sony's (-7/-3) deal with that by simply not using '+' format specific (editing) features.
    A PC DVD recorder drive firmware may be easier in that respect to simply have the hardware support layer in place.
    It would be interesting to learn more about all this though.
     
  3. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    Sony left all the features out as with them the format just isn't reliable. Only Philips seems to push the +RW format to the limits, no other manufacturer is as keen to support all the full feature spec.

    Pioneer could easily support +RW, they do not need to support the +VR format. +RW would then just be used exactly like DVD-RW, i.e. chose between VR and Video mode, with +R behaving exactly like DVD-R. This only needs a switch thrown in firmware to support it. I agree supporting +RW with the +VR format requires extra software and GUI changes on the Pioneer.

    For further interest, DVD-RW fully supports the Philips +VR format, but as this method isn't approved by the DVD Forum due to reliability concerns, it will never be seen happening officially on set-top recorders. However with a PC DVD-RW writer and any number of software packages, you can record to DVD-RW with +VR format from your computer, unofficially of course! Ironically certain biased websites towards +RW swear it isn't possible for DVD-RW to work with the +VR application format, just shows what propaganda is out there :)

    Regards

    Philip
     
  4. pio5100h

    pio5100h
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    171
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +3
    Thanks a lot PhilipL,
    Very informative issues you presented indeed.
    I always believed my pioneer did some neat tricks with -RW in VR mode (5100h).
     
  5. bobbypunk

    bobbypunk
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The main reason less people are supporting the +R formats is that the DVD council(?) or whatever they're called support all formats except +R/+RW.
     
  6. phelings

    phelings
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,025
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Ratings:
    +0
    Before Primitive and his mates get in with a shedload of statistics showing that +R is actually selling better currently(which I agree with),its worth pointing out something.
    Many people buying their Mico/Grundig/Argos dvd recorders will be getting them to add to their standalone player,and being able to play those recordings on that player will be important.This is where the Panasonic machines fall down.Those with particular needs like editing etc will go for the Panny recorders,but most of the supermarket shoppers buying these cheapies will be after compatibility,and thats why DVD+ is going to make great strides in the next few months.Its already gone from zilch to 50% of the market in PC writers in about 2 years,with most PC units now dual format.Its going to be interesting watching Philips low tech format steal more of the market,while the official formats continue their own war(RAM v -RW).I have a Panasonic HS2 BTW
     
  7. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    You are assuming here that people actually know what they are buying and the differences between the various formats.

    In my opinion, those people buying their DVD Recorders at the supermarket know nothing about the formats or what they are buying.

    Whether the disc works or not in their standalone is just chance with +RW, and there are many people who are disappointed by the marketing and promises of convergence and compatibility, I have heard their stories! +RW's compatibility only goes up if users have a model that allows and they know how to change flag settings on the disc, this sort of thing is way over the heads of many supermarket DVD Recorder buyers.

    The cheap +RW units are full of problems, are not made to last or work reliability, but made to be cheap. The Taiwanese manufacturers are subsidised by Philips with cheap licensing deals to flood the retail sales market in order to brainwash people that +RW must be the best format because their are more choices of +RW models (even though most only differ cosmetically), and increase the chances that someone buying without any idea what the formats are, end up with a +RW recorder.

    The supermarkets are full of cheap electronic goods, my parents have got through 3 TV’s in 5 years because they buy them cheap at the supermarket, they are just realising now as the 3rd one plays up that buying cheap is a false economy. Even though supermarkets are full of cheap TVs and VCRs with brand names we have never heard of, no one is saying that the likes of Sony will be forced out of the market place as they having problems competing with cheap Taiwanese imports.

    The fact is there is not just one “market” for DVD Recorders. For +RW to usurp the likes of DVD-RAM/DVD-R and DVD-RW, it needs to have hardware produced by well-known manufacturers of a quality above that of those sold at the supermarkets.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  8. chard

    chard
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Messages:
    398
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    just got the Pioneer 5100.

    The first discs -RW in video mode would play on a second Cambridge Audio machine, but not on either my laptop drive or PC drive !?

    Disappointing, but the machine looks good - although the editing process looks pretty bloody complex.
     
  9. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    RW media is only around 70% compatible when recorded in the Video mode (the same is true for +RW).

    You may find DVD-Rs work okay in the laptop and PC Drive, alternatively check for firmware updates for those drives as that may improve compatibility. It is also worth trying different media.

    In addition make sure you fill the disc up at least half way, although the Pioneer may do this for you, i.e. you record 1 minute of video and it takes 15 minutes to finalise is a sign it is filling the disc with dummy data.

    Regards

    Philip
     
  10. chard

    chard
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2002
    Messages:
    398
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Ratings:
    +0
    thanks PhilipL.....I will have a play around with it.

    One other issue I faced last night was the Pioneer 5100 wouldn't play Aliens Legacy disc past chapter 15....it locked up every time. I tried the ususal cleaning it and trying to skip past it, it wouldn't play !

    The annoying thing is that it played in the £90 Cambridge Audio player perfectly !!!

    In over 6 years and 400 discs, I have never had this happen - would anyone else be concerned or is this just an anomoly between the 5100 and this disc ?

    On the plus side, it provides the excuse I have been waiting for to get the Quadrilogy set.....
     
  11. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,787
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +421
    Hi

    I have had incompatibilities like this before between DVD Players. One plays the disc fine, another doesn't.

    The queston is, is it just an incompatibility, your 1 in 400 chance, or a problem with the recorder?

    I would guess there is a glitch on that disc that the Pioneer is stumbling over, where as the other player is able to skip past or read it correctly.

    If possible try the disc in another Pioneer 5100, if it still has the error, assume it is one of those odd incompatibilities between makes of DVD Players/Recorders and a particular disc, it is known to happen. If it plays it fine, you have a case for getting an exchange for a new Pioneer 5100, or there maybe a firmware upgrade that can be sent to you to fix the problem.

    The other thing to try is another copy of the problem DVD in the Pioneer, maybe a rental or borrow from a friend.

    Regards

    Philip
     

Share This Page

Loading...