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PIONEER 436XDE - Judder, a deal breaker

E

eonone

Guest
Hi

Been waiting for the 42PV500 for EVER, so the other day decided on a Pioneer 436xde on the basis of 'its got to be good' and paid the extra cash premium.

However yesterday I actually got to see it in Sevenoaks and noticed some judder, looked at the same movie on the PV500 and didnt noticed any, actually it looked very clean and 3d like.

Anyway is there ANY way to eliminate this judder as it bothers me or do I need to cancel my order and continue waaaaaaaaaaaaiting for the PV500 (its been 3months already after all)
 

MAW

Banned
For those that notice it, the judder is a fixture. Makes my eyeballs wobble, but some people swear it doesn't exist, or if you use 'pure cinema' it goes away. You need a TV plasma? No sky/freeview, or need the speakers on the panel? Why not a PHD8, it can do all the PV500 will with sky/dvd, except speakers are an add on. It could do a lot more with freeview if you choose a Topfield or similar as a freeview tuner.
 

tscotsman

Active Member
I seem some of the guys in avsforum.com are comparing the Pv500/436XDE and are saying much the same, that the judder is still there :eek: and really annoying and that with the same scene the Pv500 is not affected. :) They are also saying that the blacks are not as good, but are an improvement.

So glad I got a Pv500!! :smashin:
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
Pioneer recommend that Pure cinema be kept off for Pal sources and that it is only for NTSC use (24fps).

I use my self built HTPC for FRC and scaling sky+ that completely removes any judder.
 

MAW

Banned
We've been there before, Dr. As the panel processes all at 56.25Hz or so we are told, judder free PAL is simply not possible.
 

tjradiohead

Active Member
I have to say that the XDE looked alot better with HD than the PV500, and that included blacks. It was the F1 Car demo, they were side by side, and banding/solarisation was much more evident on the PV500, although i am still considering a PHD8 as the pio is over my budget.
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
MAW said:
We've been there before, Dr. As the panel processes all at 56.25Hz or so we are told, judder free PAL is simply not possible.
It is possible if you know what to do, no judder on anything i throw at mine! ;)
 
M

Majid Khan

Guest
Okay i've finally seen the Pioneer 436xde - not impressed to be honest..

The judder was noticeable and off putting, but i'm just curious if someone else could confirm this - i can't tell if this was a badly set up 436, but there was a strange criss cross/ mesh like pattern about the picture on this plasma...

I found it very distracting and unimpressive.. to be fair, its not really noticeable from a normal viewing distance.. but close up, it looked abysmal.

Has anyone else noticed this effect on the 436 or is it just poorly set up?

Aside from the judder and this peculiar effect on the picture, have to say the colours looked pretty good , as did brightness and contrast.. but the judder was quite noticeable.
 

MAW

Banned
Dr, it's not to do with knowing anything, it's what you are sensitive to. The internal refresh of the panel is not compatible with judder free pal, sorry. Your PC might well smooth things out a bit, but watched closely it will still judder. BTW is this HDMI or VGA connection?
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
MAW said:
Dr, it's not to do with knowing anything, it's what you are sensitive to. The internal refresh of the panel is not compatible with judder free pal, sorry. Your PC might well smooth things out a bit, but watched closely it will still judder. BTW is this HDMI or VGA connection?
This is on both connections, a good test for judder is the Sky news channel ticker tapes as well as cinematic shots from LOTR triology, "watched very closely".

I hate judder myself and i am very sensitive to it, that is why i re-searched it and found a way to eliminate it, completely.
 
A

av2diefor

Guest
I think it all depends on how close you stand to the screen.

When you demo a set or walk around Curry's you normally stand one or two feet away, at home its more like eight or ten feet.

I have a 506 and its judder free, period.

No BS, no computer, scalers and the like , just pure pleasure.

I also have a PHD8 and its nowhere near as good as the 506, so i've no axe to grind whatsoever and have both sets at home to compare.

If it juddered i would say so and sell it :)
 

MAW

Banned
Incredible really! On VGA the xde only takes 60 and 72Hz, soory there is no way, period. Ask who you like this will look like crap.
 

nightsoil

Novice Member
feeding my 436xde with rgb scart for sky+ and via HDMI from an 868 DVD player - I see no judder :confused:

Should I just be looking for it on the ticker tapes ? I've tried looking for it on both horizontall and vertical pans !
 
A

av2diefor

Guest
MAW said:
Simple, don't look. Why search out something that might bother you? What you don't see won't hurt.
Sound advice,
theres too much if i stand too close on one leg watching the news i can sometimes see a line :)

Just enjoy it................
 

-Hitman-

Well-known Member
MAW said:
Incredible really! On VGA the xde only takes 60 and 72Hz, soory there is no way, period. Ask who you like this will look like crap.
:boring:



Wrong!

Standard refresh rates available for the XDE are 60, 70, 72 and 75hz and custom ones can be forced using powerstrip so 56.25Hz is no problem, matey! ;)


Guys, as Mr Maw says dont go looking, its a path that me and Maw have taken, unfortunately for him.
 

tscotsman

Active Member
I dont know if you can get rid of it, but clearly theres going to be problems with any plasma. Thats the reason I never went for a 436 as the judder would drive me mad, i might not notice it straight away but knowing me eventually I would and I really need to be able to watch Football and F1 on the Plasma. The other consideration aswell was that the blacks are still not as good as the Pannys aparently. Its a shame cause I really like the style of the 436.
 
A

av2diefor

Guest
tscotsman said:
I dont know if you can get rid of it, but clearly theres going to be problems with any plasma. Thats the reason I never went for a 436 as the judder would drive me mad, i might not notice it straight away but knowing me eventually I would and I really need to be able to watch Football and F1 on the Plasma. The other consideration aswell was that the blacks are still not as good as the Pannys aparently. Its a shame cause I really like the style of the 436.
Its all down to personal preference.
My PHD8 is good, but the 506 is better, blacks are fantastic, Sky is more lifelike and colours more vibrant.

You pay your money.......................
 

Blue Triangles

Active Member
Was the picture good for you straight out of the box av2diefor, or did you have to mess about with all the settings? I'm interested as I have just ordered the same Tv. :)
 
A

av2diefor

Guest
It was great out of the box, just turned the contrast and bightness down halfway.
The other settings are much to the taste of each and everyone.

Just have a good play around with the settings, its easy, and you will soon decide yourself what looks good.
Enjoy :)
 

Blue Triangles

Active Member
Thanks av2diefor.

Just out of interest what's your viewing distance for your 50"? I have about 11ft, will that be enough do you think?
 
A

av2diefor

Guest
Sounds fine, mine varies from 9/14 foot depending on who is in my seat :)
 

paja_nl

Standard Member
Dr. So I read here that you found a way for judder-free display on the pioneer 436XDE. But reading through many many postings it is still not really clear to me. Can you help me and explain what you did exactly?

Pixelmapping with connection via VGA, and with what settings etc?

Thanks in advance...
 

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