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pioneer 436 xde *viewing experience 2

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by usman24, Sep 24, 2005.

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  1. usman24

    usman24
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    I visited comet for the second time to see the pioneer 436 in action.Luckily it was placed right next to the panasonic pv500. the feed was hd with various scenes including sky diving, underwater scenes and football.

    The black level was not in the same league as the panasonic in my view. The pioneer had a strange mesh grille [gauze] effect on most images. depth and detail of the image was better on the the pv500 with rich colours and slightly better shadow detail in most scenes. Motion on most scenes seemed to have jagged edges artificial look to them especially the players on the football pitch. colour banding was evident in the shots of the sky but slightly less than the panasonic. I think this is an incurable problem for plasma.

    Overall I would choose the panasonic over the new pioneer due to better motion , black level and general richness and smoothness of the image.

    I just coudn't ignore the mesh effect on the pioneer screen.
     
  2. gizlaroc

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    Pioneer owners call this sharpness! ;)

    Seriously though, once you get back to a normal viewing distance this can be beneficial.


    Did you have a proper play with the settings?
     
  3. deltatango301

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    you took the words right out of my mouth
     
  4. Zebadee69

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    I think it just shows how different the viewing experience can be with badly set-up plasmas or bad feeds. I viewed the Pioneer next to the PV500 and it had none of the problems you mentioned.
     
  5. StefanoC

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    This afternoon I saw the 436XDE and PV500 side by side in Comet on the A10 in Enfield, if anyone from North London or South Herts needs to view them.

    I've already got a 436XDE on order which is coming next Saturday but I'll share my experience. The sales rep told me they had only installed it in the morning so it has not had any settings changed. The Pio was very badly setup, the contrast was way too high and the black level too intense resulting in a loss of detail. The Panny was better setup with better colour and contrast, but I'm sure if both panels were properly configured there would be very little in the colour balance.

    I was not impressed with the HD feed, the sky diving scene showed colour banding on the plasma, LCD and DLP sets, and other scenes contained a lot of noise, although the Pio did handle the noise better. I really don't think the TV's are to blame, if that is going to be the quality of Sky HD, I will stick to my current Sky viewing as I would expect it to be noise, block and banding free for £400 plus whatever extra montly charge.

    Basically from what is setup in store it is impossible to say which is better. I prefer the Pio for its looks, smaller frame size and media box.

    2 years ago in San Francisco I saw a 50" Sony plasma playing HD material and it was totally amazing, so far in the UK I've yet to see a HD demo as good, although the LG demos in Harrods are pretty fine.

    I'll report next week hopefully when I receive my 436, although the wife is already asking why if spending £2.5K on a TV do I need to set aside hours to set it up on each input properly, for that sort of money it should be perfect out the box.
     
  6. birdseed

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    Gizlaroc,
    i may not be getting the joke, what do you mean by pio owners calling it sharpness?
    Cheers
     
  7. Blue Triangles

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    I saw the PDP-506XDE on display for the first time today in Comet, I was very impressed. It was playing a Toy Story DVD through component connections, the PQ was superb (bare in mind I don't have to much experience with plasma tv's). I'd imagine being played through a HDMI DVD player (why didn't they show this off in the store?) the picture would be even better after being upscaled.

    I'm 95% sure this is the screen I'll go for. It's just the RGB scart performance (for Xbox and Gamecube) that is a concern.
     
  8. gizlaroc

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    The pioneer has a big gaps between the pixels that some would say causes a chicken wire effect, and that is not nice, however those who own them always look on the bright side and class it as extra sharpness.
    To be fair it does actually give it a sharper image and if you are not sitting too close it can make it look alot sharper than other screens.
     
  9. Matt306

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    I was thinking about a 436 so after reading about various plasmas on here and deciding that looking at them myself was a good idea I went down to Comet on Castle Vale (Brum). Their setup has most of the current "HD ready" sets next to each other all running the Sky/Comet HD demo from a PC via a 6 way HDMI Distribution block. Having seen the 42PV500 setup properly in a Panasonic shop in Exeter I can safely say the HD demo provided by Comet does not do the screen any justice. Colour banding and frankly grainy in places. However as this was presented across all the screens I was able to compare them with a degree of equality (once the eye blinding contrast had been turned off on at least 3 of them).

    There wasn't much difference between the Panny and the Pio, I thought there was less banding on the Pio but more judder (especially on the motorbike scene) on the Pio. I was liking the Hitachi 7200 but the black level wasn't great and I'm not keen on the look. The Samsung just didn't come close against the rest. Most worrying was the burnt in HD ready logo on the Panny, but as is was in dynamic mode with the contrast turned up full then I'll assume this is a setup blunder by Comet.

    I think after this experience I've changed my mind from the 436 to a PV500 (or PHD8).
     
  10. Ruby

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    Matt306,

    I went to the same Comet branch that you did and came out with pretty much the same conclusions. I've changed my mind from a 506XDE to a 50PV500.
     
  11. explorer

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    Never ever decide to part with 2k plus on a shop set up, you are better taking to owners about the set you are thinking off or checking out reviews, None of the shops could hope to set up the pic, even if they did and you bought it home with the same settings, it would look terrible, for best results, each set would have to be set up in your home with your lighting conditions and distance from viewer considerations also, The pioneer does seem to have a mesh effect up close bit that is because, they say each pixel has a housing to stop colour bleed, read the bumf on the website, I have the Pioneer 435 fde and from 5 ft plus its brilliant, then again, how close would you wanna be to a 43 inch telly?
    Please remember that any purchase will look diff, it depends on the feed and the way its connected and the settings in the menu, with care you can make any modern decent brand flat panel look good at home, Tip..... please remember that the screen size will make a flawed source look worse. like cable, sky etc.

    Good luck mate, If you have ant questions on the Pioneer, I will do my best to help ok?
     
  12. Ruby

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    explorer,

    I will be sitting about 2.5-3m away from a 50" screen. Do you think the mesh thing will be a problem from that distance?

    Also, how do you find the blacks on the 6th generation XDE model during dark scenes in dark viewing conditions?
     
  13. jonnye

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    It never ceases to amaze me how many people here...who...are very knowledgeable in all things AV (which I’m not) ...but make such decision on spending 2.5K+ , based on a floor display in a retail store!!! It's crazy.

    1) When viewing the Plasma you're not going to be standing any further than 7ft away.
    2) The source material that is likely playing on those screen are either....someone else demo disc (no bias to any Panny owners here) but it always seem to be panny demo discs on other plasma models.
    3) Comet/Currys/Dixons et al have horrific store lighting, which doesn't help the matter.
    4) If viewing SKY/Freeview feeds, just remember that one feed coming from that 12inch skydish on their roof is servicing 80+ displays.
    5) The setups are rarely adjusted to any detail or customisation. You’re seeing out the box setups.
    6) The bloke who comes up to you ....who 99.9% of the time (no offence to any of the above employees, since any of them reading these threads/forums are the 0.01%) is incompetent in his knowledge of the plasma you’re about to purchase. He sees you as A) Commission B)Sales Target for the worst selling plasma (if you come to him with some lame budget) C)Biased opinion on his own choice (which in AVforums.com would be....you guessed it...the pany PV500!!)

    Overall if you really want to make a calculated decision, go to an independent retailer (Local High Street / Specialist) View the model you're interested in buying and ask them to test all formats through all AV with multiple feeds....then make you decision on that. Once you've found you model then go back to the Mega Incompetent Stores and place your order for 50% less that you're specialist retailer price.

    That's how it should be done. So lets not here anymore ranting about seeing a setup at Comet/Dixons/Currys and using that to change their mind on a 2.5k plasma

    Just my 2 cents

    Kapish!!!
     
  14. jonnye

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    ooops!! After all that ranting i failed to ask my question..

    With the comet 436xde setup, do you get two side speakers or the one bottom speaker with the plasma?

    Cheers
     
  15. av2diefor

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    Spot on mate,
    trouble is to view them in a home you normally have to buy it :mad:

    Been there before , beleive me.

    Even the independants get it wrong, they have been telling us for the last year or so that the 435XDE was the best, now they are admitting that it wasn't now the 436 has hit the shops :)
     
  16. lynx

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    And the independant boys will thank you for that - ''do me a favour mate,set-up and demo 3 different displays in several different formats while i decide which one i'm going to order from a box shifter - oh and milk and one sugar in my coffee''.
     
  17. The_Fitter

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    2 Side speakers.
     
  18. Helicon

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    What sort of a statement is that?!! You made that up, no retailer would/could say that! You make it sound like retailers have been lying.

    Could they have told you for the past year that the 436 is the better one to go for, and not the 435? No! They couldn't! It didn't exist up until a month or so ago!!!

    Comparisons and recommendations can't be made against a current product and a product that doesn't exist yet.

    Hang on....i'll save you a year of time.....the 436 isn't the best to go for, it's the 437. Go and purchase that one -now!!
     
  19. Matt306

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    I certainly wouldn't base my purchasing decision solely on a retailers setup, but a mixture of both in shop viewing and review/forum opinions. The ideal solution would be to go to a specialist and get a full days worth of demo, but I wouldn't pay their prices. So from a moral point of view I couldn't go down that route. That's the tradeoff I suppose, having not seen any of the sets in their best possible light it comes down to a bit of guesswork and "gut feeling".

    This is how bad a setup can be. Dixons XL in the bullring have a PV500 running a DVD through a scart switch box! Morons.
     
  20. goatlips

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    I too viewed the new 436 today via HD,as I was buying some CDR'S. Can't beleive we are on the 6th generion. These prices have sure droped,I paid £4500 for my 434-HDE!

    Now I have one question,can I use and buy the new PDP-R06XE media box??? It has 2 HDMI sockets!
     
  21. Rahmorak

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    And then in a couple of years when everyone has done this, the indies are out of business and there is nowhere left for decent advice/demos.

    The good independants offer a lot more than a decent demo, they will also advise on how to get the best out of your purchase with your existing equipment (leads, setup, placement etc.) as well as after-sales help They will also go a lot further to help you if you have problems (e.g. dead pixels etc.).

    I find the whole 'cheapest is best' culture really depressing.

    R.
     
  22. Matt306

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    For people like me the "cheapest is best" is the only way I would be able to afford a screen like this. I've had to save for a couple of years to afford a screen for £2k. As much as I would like to go and get the top notch advice from my local specialist he wants £3k for the same product. Because I can't afford the extra £1k should I not buy the product or should I choose an inferior/smaller product instead?

    I think the problem is that people strive for the best possible product at the lowest cost. The AV market can be very elitist and I've felt in the past (sevenoaks is a prime example) that if you don't have a bottomless wallet, they don't want to know you. Maybe the topline stuff should only be sold through specialist shops, that way people like me don't get ideas above my station and will buy a Daewoo through an online retailer and be none the wiser?
     
  23. jonnye

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    I think a few people have miss understood what I meant when talking about the independents. I realise the way I wrote my rant implied that we should use the Indies for their knowledge but go to the "fast food" joint to pick up the goods.

    What I meant to say was, the independents are the people you should go to for advice...why??...cos they know exactly what they're doing (in regards of AV setup etc.) and what they're talking about (in regards to all things AV/Product Knowledge etc)....rather than walk into a Mega Store and speak to some 16 year old on work experience / blatantly biased salesperson....this was my point. Unfortunately my latter comment from my thread which I worded insensitively was true....that the smaller specialist can't back the bulk buying monsters of Dix/Cur/Com which means they (the Indies)can't be so tight on margins. Hence you can (could in the respects of comet) pick up the 436xde for 2498 quid against 2800+ from the indeed specialists.

    Net Net, the big four should look at hiring some knowledgeable staff to help us uninitiated folk in making some good decisions...and the manufactures should give the Indies a break on prices and let them sell for a more competitive price
     
  24. Rahmorak

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    Hear Hear!
     
  25. Rahmorak

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    I would be very surprised if people like Joe/Liam/MAW et. al. were 50% more than the high street for a product. They might however charge a few hundred quid more which is fine in my mind.

    If you have a concrete budget and an indie cant provide the best product for your needs for that price then by all means buy elsewhere, I don't really have a problem with that and would do so myself.
    It was more with exhaustively using the indie's advice/demo facilities then buying elsewhere. (and again, I have been guilty of this to an extent *blush*)

    I confess I passed on our local indie who was asking full whack for a PHD7, although it was not just because of the price but also because they told me the HD panels were far inferior to the WD panels for Home Cinema use, and because they werent even aware of the HD series until I asked them about it.

    Not only that, but a lot of people who bought (for example) a Pio 505 only to be disappointed with black level/judder etc. would have saved a lot more money going to a good indie who would maybe have directed them towards a PWD/MXE etc. They might have paid a few hundred more up front, but they would potentially have saved thousands.

    R.
     
  26. Helicon

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    A few people talking some sense now........

    Matt306 - Specialist retailers aren't necessarily £1k more expensive on a plasma, if we're talking about the 436 you'll only find about £300 in it at the very most. And seeing as the plasma retails for £2800, there's no way anyone can do it for £1k less. In fact i'd be dubious as to how much the retailer is making at £2500, a saving of £300, let alone anything else.
     
  27. Matt306

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    Helicon - the £1k was a worse case scenario (in fact it was more like £900) between an e-tailer and a panasonic shop.

    Rahmorak - Apologies to Liam/MAW etc if that's the impression I gave, I was refering mainly to so-called specialists local to me, some well known, others blatently some ex-Sky engineer who thinks he knows a bit about tellys. I need some faith restoring in AV specialists.

    I think I've made my mind up on the panel I want (PHD8 from AV sales), and I will try to find a specialist in my area (brum) who will advise me on a good prog DVD recorder, AV amp and cables, and most importantly buy them from him. I think that would be a good compromise between price/quality/service.
     
  28. av2diefor

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    Whoa whoa whoa, hold it big boy,

    Im telling you my tale of one retailer (inependant) who droned on about how good the 435 was , and how it was better than the pv500.
    Now they are saying it wasnt good with Sky and poor feeds.

    And another thing DONT accuse me of making things up, you dont know me but if you feel that strongly meet me and tell me to my face.
     
  29. The_Fitter

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    If you want to blame someone for the price war blame the Net. The wonderful tool we are all using now. If I need to know which av receiver is a good buy, I check the net. What's the distance from Pluto to Venus, I check the net.
    Not so many years ago your indie had the market cornered. You had to see a specialist for the info, not any more. Music industry suffers, film industry suffers, all down to the net. So it's up to the indie to offer a service above and beyond or go out of business.
    A few years back I had Rayleigh Hifi in Southend (I hope it's ok to name them) demo a system I was looking at. Denon 3802 av, Mission M5 speakers, Pioneer 656 dvd, I was happy and asked what deal they would do me if I bought the lot from them there and then. There answer.....we will come to your house and set it up for you. Not good enough I'm afraid. £350 more expensive on the av and dvd alone. I have a wife and kids as well you know.
    So I reserve the right to buy from the cheapest box shifter if I so desire.
    p.s I did buy the speakers from them and interconnects so they still got a nice profit.
     
  30. longy

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    people keep going on about blacks with plasmas, i think there never be as good as crt in my opinion,they seem to force the black level one being panasonic for instance,where they use a darker glass to get that extra black level so when u turn the lights down it no longer hides the deficencies with plasma technology ie not being able to completly turn plasma off so u get a glow. another thing i noticed is the rainbow affect. i own a toshiba crt tv and cant bring myself to buy an inferior piece of kit.i spoilt my self with smooth motion excellent naturul blacks and colour. i think i will wait for sed to come out plasma is a waist of time if your waiting for it to surpass crt.they should never have been invented. :suicide:
     
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