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Pioneer 435 ISF calibration results

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by fella, Feb 16, 2005.

  1. fella

    fella
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    After receiving lots of emails here are my settings after the ISF calibration:
    Contrast:25
    Brightness:+8
    Colour:-10
    Tint:0
    Sharpness:-1
    ADV
    Colourset:hand
    Mpeg:low
    Dnr:low
    Cti:eek:n
    Dre:eek:ff

    Note:These settings are used with a greyscale of 6500 K

    Why did i calibrated my screen?
    Well,I was one of those who was always playing with the settings in the menu.I felt that the blacklevel could be better and I found that the lightoutput of the screen could be lowered,this was sometimes too much for my eyes,too bright,too hard,etc.
    The ISF technician came and connected his laptop with ISF software too the reciever and put a spectra radiometer on the screen and started measuring.
    He noticed that the screen was a bit cranked up too high from the factory,around 9000 K,and that explaided,the high brightness,and colours etc.
    After correcting too ISF standards,that is 6500 K,and setting the colours in balance,I was wondering what the result looked like.
    Blacklevel increased,much more blacklevel detail,before the calibration I lowered the brightness too get more blacks but I lost details doing that.
    The colours are very natural,really beautiful.
    Increase of dept.
    Artifacts are as good as gone if there were any(depends on what source)
    And last but not least:The buzz of the screen lowered dramatically.Before it was near and sometimes over the irritating factor.Now its still there but i have to lean my ear to the screen to hear it.
    I have it calibrated since 2 months and I didn't change anything in the menu.
    I'm really happy with it now.
    After the calibration you'll see the screen's potential.
    I live in the Netherlands and there are more ppl with a 435 who have calibrated their screen and all are happy with it.
    The costs were 125 euro.
    I do not know what a calibration will do for other brands plasma screens,sofar I only have seen a calibrated 434 and my hde 435.The 435 has the edge because it has almost no reflection during daytime watching,and it has slighty more detail,but this is very subtle.
    Thumbs up!
    Please place any calibration experiances inhere!
     
  2. trinity

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    Hi Fella,

    Can you please tell if those ppl have approx. the same callibration settings as your screen??
    how did the ISF technician set the colortemp to 6500K ?
    Can you tel what your settings are in the "kleurbeheer" Menu?

    Gtzz Trinity
     
  3. fella

    fella
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    trinity

    The settings in colormenu are still set to 0 because colour adjustment was done manually via the laptop.So the calibrated settings are my default settings now,know what I mean?
    Before the calibration I had too much blue and too less red,now they are balanced at the same level.
    I do not know any settings of other ppl,maybe they will vary from screen too screen,I really don't know.
    The greyscale tracking is done again with the laptop and a spectra radiometer in some hidden menu.But even if we could find the menu,where is 6500K?
    The normal servicemenu I can acces only shows how many hours the screen has been on,how many times the screen has been put on etc.
    If you from Holland,visit www.isfcalibraties.nl and look for user reviews.(only in dutch i'm afraid)

    greetz
     
  4. John

    John
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    Oooh , Gordon & Piers will wince at that :eek:
    Atb
    JS
     
  5. trinity

    trinity
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    hi Fella,
    Thanks for your explanation.
    unfortunaly was the calibrationtour from isfcalibrations last Saterday in Limburg :( . So i have to wait a while, before i can get a calibration for a reduced price.
    grtzz Trinity
     
  6. Costas

    Costas
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    Well I am seriously puzzled WHY only in the UK we have to pay so much more... I know of ISF calibrations in a number of other countries too (Italy, Greece, France, Germany, Hong Kong, USA). All known costs are well below (and sometimes less than half!) than our good friends here!!!
     
  7. John

    John
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    I guess its all about supply and demand , if they work as often as they want and get paid what they want for doing it ,then why shouldn't they .If they were too expensive , they wouldn't get used .
    A quick look at the ISF site confirms that there are only 6 "ISF-trained dealers with calibration equipment in the UK" .A pretty exclusive and in demand service I guess . There are 8 such dealers in Holland , not sure of their population , but I would guess its a lot less than the UK . Only 2 in france , 1 in Italy wonder how much they charge . 2 in Alaska :eek: and couldn't be bothered to count the number in California
    atb
    JS
     
  8. hornydragon

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    6 listed in UK one retired fromISF calibs and one manufacturer...Not sure if you can get ARCAM to calibrate your Pioneer plasma with Pioneer DVD player for example so that leaves 4, 2 of whom are forum sponsors..............so 50% of the Active ISF calibartors are members of this forum and 1 other is an EX-member!
     
  9. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder
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    So how about a nice discount for members of this forum.......... :D
     
  10. PioRow

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    I do find it strange that you can buy a prodduct from Pioneer for £3000 and you have to pay another £150+ to get the most out of the product. Its like buying a kettle that will only boil as quickly as possible if you pay a engineer to come out and calibrate it!!
    I'm sure there are some general pointers that the ISF people could give out, but if the majority of these settings cant be changed on a onscreen menu then there is little hope for the average joe.
     
  11. John

    John
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    Its nothing like a kettle :D .A kettle only has an on and off switch for a start :rotfl:
    Js
     
  12. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Hi Guys,

    Wondered how long it'd take for someone to notice the insane pricing of the Netherlands guy... Frankly I am at a loss to understand how he can charge that amount of money and actually make a profit. In fact I'd say he can't.

    I used to charge a fee structure based on the way the ISF actually suggest. It is such that as the product becomes more expensive the price goes up. Well my theory is that is nonsense. It could take me longer to set up a £2000 PLASMA than a £10000 projector!. So I made a decision....I averaged out the costs to me and the amount of jobs to get a flat fee that I am at now. So some folk pay a little more than they might previously and some folk a little less. No-one on mainland UK gets charged travel or accomodation by me as it's factored in to my pricing.

    I should also mention that not all ISF calibration is possibly done to the same standard. I am sure that all folk offering the service believe they are doing the best they can but I can tell you that they don't actually teach you all you need to know to do something like a Pioneer to its best on an ISF course. Also not all measurement tools have the ability to take the measurements you need to do one of those to the highest standard. I have dealers who are ISF trained (I'm not talking about Piers here) and I have had to explain to them the procedures for carrying out some of this work correctly.

    Just from looking at the posted settings I can say that it's unlikely I'd have ended up with the same settings as fella has...Who would be right...me or the other guy? Would the display look better than out of the box....undoubtedly.

    I'm sorry if you think my pricing is too high but it's what it is so I can stay in business. I resent it being called a rip off.

    Gordon
     
  13. MAW

    MAW
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    I will second that. Anyone can do 1/2 a job for 1/2 the price. As to the necessity of calibrating, in answer to 'why aren't they right straight from the factory' ISF takes environment and variations in the sources into account, we don't all have the same sky box let alone DVD player, nor do we all use the same connection method even those that have the same kit. Early on in my business I worked out why it was called 'custom install', it's because I have never done 2 identical ones.
     
  14. John

    John
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    I would just like to state,incase I have either Gordon or Piers round later this year*, that I wasn't suggesting that they were Rip Off Prices :D

    John

    *ofcourse , this is wholly dependent on me sneaking a new DVD player , Speakers and possibly Amp past SWMBO :rotfl: Shhhh ;)
     
  15. ahin4114

    ahin4114
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    No-one in this thread has called it a rip off except for you Gordon. It's no different to people talking about buying hardware cheaper in the states etc.

    Labour charges are higher for most everything in the UK, that's why every manufacturer and call centre is moving off shore, I think it's unreasonable to expect to pay the same prices in the UK as elsewhere.

    If you pay peanuts...
     
  16. Costas

    Costas
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    Gordon, the quality of your superior work and the way you do it is not under question but the charge is. It is this that really put me off in your quote last year, the charge for hotel stay. Me and my colleagues run a small business ourselves visiting customers across the UK. Unfortunately like yourselves at Convergent we do not have enough branches and people to cover all areas. So many times we need to say overnight somewhere to get close to the customer and do the job. However, we never ever pass the accomodation charges to the customers.
     
  17. deanym

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    Costas,

    You're onto something.

    I reckon that if the price was dropped to £150 for a full setup, more than twice the number of people would have the calibration carried out.

    With good planning and time management, I'm sure Piers/Gordon could make this viable, servicing more customers and making more money.
     
  18. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    personally having seen Piers work i think he is worth £250+ anyone who spends £3k+ on a system and wont spend £250 under 10% to get the best performance out of it is Peeing in the wind the Stuff ISF techs can do goes way way beyond AVIA/DVE and a good eye can do i guess you have to see it to beleive it...
     
  19. PioRow

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    I have no doubt that the service is worth £250, hell if you watch your plasma every day its easily worth spending £250 to get the best possible picture and from the feedback I've read it sounds guys like gordon can really get the most out of your plasma.

    What annoys me is that it requires all this specialist equipment and software which I feel should be made available by your manufacturer. When buying a Pioneer plasma a enineer should visit and set it up for you!!! Free of charge!!

    I have agree on the price point issue, £150 would be a lot easier to stomach than £250.
     
  20. deanym

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    Hornydragon,

    After spending 3000+ on a tv I'm not in a position to shell out another 250 so soon. You can afford to spend on this undoubtedly life changing improvement. I can't. £250 may be good value, but its a lot of money. If the cost was lower, the number of people taking it up would more than offset the difference. Simple economics. Supply and demand.
     
  21. GazTheHat

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    I'm just waiting for my new player (dv575) with PS before i dish out the £250.

    By the sounds of it, it is more than worth it. Like HD says, if you're paying £3k+ for a screen, why watch it not at it's best? Everyone would love everything cheaper, but if these guys have the skills, then surely it's worth it???

    OK, it's gonna take a good while until i can afford £250 and even then convince the other/better half that the tv needs "tweaking", but i'm lOOking forward to it. First off, I can't wait until it's hooked up with component. DV575 & QED PCV cable on there way :D
     
  22. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    in that case it will just push price of plasma up buy £500-800 B&O do this inc the price but you still dont get ISF just a physical install... Deanym if plasma was £3250 would you still have bought it????
     
  23. Costas

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    Yes I fully agree. A planned and well organised service serving more customers at £150 would be a much imporved more fair cost proposition.
     
  24. deanym

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    No. 3000 was my limit.

    Don't get me wrong. I want to have the calibration. i just canna afford it! If it was 150 I'd get it done no hesitation.

    What I may do is look inot setting up a service myself. I reckon a good living could be eked out. A lot of upfront investment, but if a few members of the forum were to be shareholders and get reduced rates then i'm sure it'd be a goer.
     
  25. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    well just wait a few months and save the £100
     
  26. deanym

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    No, £100 is for beer and other pointless purchases! Its principles now!
     
  27. Costas

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    hornydragon, I am more than sure most of the members here who buy a £3K+ plasma have a need / standard for best quality. WHY should a brand new edge of technology screen require calibration to offer its best? Why manufacturers allow that? Why should I spend 3K+ and then expect to need a professional calibration of £250+ ???? If this is the way to go, then Pioneer, Panasonic and others should fund cover the ISF's costs and offer it FREE...
     
  28. MikeKay1976

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    more to the point.....

    how do i get trained to do this & what equipment do i need????? sounds like a very good idea for a career move ;)
     
  29. docb

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    I am sure that Piers/Gordon have enough customers at the 250 price point, otherwise they would have dropped their prices.
    Simple economics? Supply and demand regulates the price, and if people are prepared to pay the current price then they are perfectly within their rights to charge what they like.
    When in business do you get a "fair" cost?
    Deanym - if you have spent £3000+ on the screen and can afford the £150 for a reduced price calibration you are saying that it is £100 you cant afford at this time. Dont you think that a £3000+ screen deserves to be calibrated by a professional?

    Piorow - if pioneer came out and calibrated your new screen would you trust them to have done the best job available, or would there always be a nagging doubt that the Pioneer engineer wasnt actually trained to ISF standards, and therefore your still not getting the best from the screen?
     
  30. daniel.godfrey

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    You need it because every room and input is different. So it cannot be optimised until the system is run in and on site.

    How can people speculate on a fair price? You have no information on which to base your assertions.

    The only evidence we seem to have - and there's lots of it - is that those who've had it done reckon it was well worth it - Thank you Gordon and MAW in my case!

    I was glad to see the confession that it was about principles not the £100 because to not spend the extra £100 is lame in my view.

    If you think the manufacturer should do it for you - fine, sit there and watch a sub-optimal picture.

    If you want the best, stop bleating and pay for it!
     

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