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Pioneer 433's and Progressive Scan

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by /\/\j17, Jun 28, 2003.

  1. /\/\j17

    /\/\j17
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    Hi,
    I'm hopeing someone can give me a straight answer on the progressive scan compatibility of the Pioneer 433 plasmas.

    Pioneers web site stated Progressive Scan: Yes, but I've heard elsewhere that the home screen (433HDE) only supports NTSC progressive scan but the monitor version (433MXE) DOES support PAL progressive scan.

    Now this leaves me somewhat confused so:

    1. Does the 433HDE only support NTSC PS?
    2. Does the 433MXE only support PAL PS, or does it support both PAL and NTSC?
    3. Does PS actually make a difference? I've yet to find someone who could actually show my a DVD being played from a PS DVD player, through a component video cable into a progressive scan capable display!

    Thanks for your help,

    /\/\j17
     
  2. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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  3. briandzo

    briandzo
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    i have the 433mxe and can confirm the display will accept
    pal progresive scan images.
    the display will also accept standard 525interlaced.
    i know this because i use this setup offen.

    The spec is that the display will accept 525 progresive too
    but i dont use this. (& therefore cannot confirm)

    Dont get confused with what is offen know as as internal
    deinterlacing. where the display turns the interlaced picture into deinterlaced progresive. With the 433mxe this is only possible when supplied with a 525ntsc image and is know as 'cinema mode'. I havn't tried this method. The only way to do so would be to set your dvd player to output its signal as ntsc.

    YES progresive does make a differance.
    technically believe me your not imaging things. its better.
    now for an instant visual demo of this.
    on my denon dvd payer when in stop mode it displays a 'screen background image'. when in this mode switch your player between interlaced and progresive modes. You will see a marked improvement when prog is active.
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    525i is interlaced 525 lines. This could be in component or RGB form or in NTSC s-video or Composite. 480 lines or thereabouts are active picture content which is where the 480i bit comes from. The de-interlaced version of this is 525P or 480P

    625i is interlaced 625 lines. This could be..........
    form or in PAL s-video or Composite. 576 lines or thereabouts are active picture content.
    The de-interlaced version is 625P or 576P

    The Pioneers plasma's all show incoming interlaced content as progressive, they do this Regardless of whether it is NTSC or PAL or 625/576i 525/480i. They have in built de-interlacing. The confusion comes in whether they can accept a de-interlaced 625P/576P source signal. I know MXE's do. Joe Fernand is the man who will have definative answer on HDE models.

    The question is whether the de-interlacing and scaling is better done externally to the dispay or internally. As has been mentioned the MXE's have acceptable de-interlacing or 525/480i source material from original film source (ie stuff originally recorded on film camera's and then transferred to video for NTSC playback). They are OK but not great with original video content and they are not that great with Film source material transferred to video for PAL playback.

    Any decent competent dealer whould be able to show you the advantages of superior de-interlacing.

    Gordon
     
  5. briandzo

    briandzo
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    Whilst i respect Gordans response to this post i will add further.

    As far as im concerned its progresive all not,
    there is no inbetween 'pretend' progresive.
    There is technically only one method to deinterlace a Signal.

    It's all down to who system does it best.
    But the answer remains deinterlacing a video signal is an absolute process. No questions on what we are trying to achieve.
    So who's system is getting it right.

    The Pioneer website offers 100Hz progresive scan (on all sources).
    This is some sort of internal deinterlacing.
    I would suggest that pioneer dont think its that great.
    As page 26 of the PDA-5002 manual, offers the user an alternative.
    this is known as 'purecinema mode' and is only supported with 525i (480i) or NTSC input signals. This feature has 3 options OFF - STANDARD and HQ.
    all 3 options offer some degree of deinterlacing, the same as there internal 'pure progresive mode', but one can assume slightly better.

    Now there are no 'degrees' of Deinterlacing a signal.
    its either deinterlaced or NOT. So there clearly is a lot of guess work and picture gambling going on. this style of image processing cannot claim to be deinterlaced (100%) perfect.

    I would suggest the features of the pioneer arn't as good or any where near as good as the results offered by the iscan ultra or similar device. Which are also far from perfect. The iscan is a dedicated device having it's main function as deinterlacing.

    This conclusion can be supported by the forthcoming Keydigital option card for the pioneer which apparently has a superior deinterlacing chip built in. Which suggests that keydigital are very aware that the pioneer's process of deinterlacing the image is far from perfect.
     

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