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Pioneer 433MXE queries

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by zAndy1, Mar 14, 2003.

  1. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Hi all,
    Well I've got my Pioneer 433MXE and I've got a few queries, hoping someone can help me! I've got Sky+ connected to INPUT1 via a JS RGB -> VGA convertor. I seem to be losing some of the picture at the top and bottom and can't see a way to correct it. If I press 'Auto Setup' I just get 'Error Invalid Key Entry'. When I press Menu there is no 'Screen' tab, just Picture, Setup and Option. On the setting tab it says 'Video Signal : RGB' , shouldn't it say VGA if I'm using an RGB -> VGA convertor?! There is nothing in the setup menu with 'Setting: VGA' as in the manual. In the picture menu there is no R.LEVEL, G.LEVEL or B.LEVEL or H.ENHANCE or V.ENHANCE as suggested in the manual. I don't know what the problem is, to me things look skinny on eg BBC1 which should look right on the WIDE setting but somehow it doesn't appear to be. Any ideas what might be wrong, anyone else using an RGB -> VGA convertor that can use the Auto Setup button ok? Please tell me I haven't got a faulty panel!!!

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  2. EffTee

    EffTee
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    Hi Andy,

    I have an identical set-up to you. You seem to be expecting to get the computer-type image options via the RGB-VGA convertor. This isn't the case, as the screen still treats the input as video - hence auto adjust not working.

    You haven't mentioned trying the other aspect ratio settings. I find that Full works best with widescreen TV images and use 4:3 for the rest. I agree that TV looks a bit odd in Wide mode.

    I'm sure your panel isn't faulty!

    EffTee
     
  3. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Thanks Efftee, sure seems odd how some of the picture is cropped at the top and bottom with the WIDE setting though, is this a known issue with the Pioneers?

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Andy,

    The ocnvertor doesn't turn the signal in to VGA (640 x 480) signal it just strips syncs and creates a 576i RGBHV timing signal. The panel doesn't recognise this as a PC signal but as 576i.

    The overscan may be adjustable in the integrator mode. Select the aspect ratio you want to work with. Then turn off plasma.

    Now wait about 20 secs and press "menu" on remote, followed "power/on/off stby". The unit will now come on in integrator mode and there might be sizing adjusmtents available.

    I am unable to check this for you so good luck

    Gordon
     
  5. saggio

    saggio
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    Hi Andy, glad you went for the MXE. I am so happy with mine...

    I agree completely with EffTee: the WIDE mode gives alway funny results with TV signals (I use a Cable Box). Best seems to be FULL (or 4:3).

    Anyway I keep switching between FULL and WIDE when watching channels with bright static logos (Sky News is the worst...) so to move the logos and avoid screen burns.

    Hope you are connecting your DVD (hopefully PAL Prog.) via a direct Component cable into INPUT 2: it is stunning!

    enjoy,
    Giorgio
     
  6. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Hi,
    Thanks for the replies everyone, setting it on FULL mode seems to have sorted it out, strange that as I expected WIDE to be the correct mode for widescreen broadcasts, anyway....
    Yes I have my Philips 962SA PAL and NTSC progressive connected to input2 via component and I agree it does look stunning. I've had a 3 series plasma, a Hitachi 32PD3000, a Toshiba 42WP27 and now the Pioneer MXE and I have to say overall I prefer the MXE to any of the previous ones. I've got some tweaking to do for sure and ideally I'd like Gordon to calibrate it when it's run in but even now it looks fantastic, just takes a little while to get used to the brightness of it! It's definitely sharper and more detailed than the Toshiba (Panny clone) and the colours are definitely better oh and it's quiet which is nice!
    Anyway like I said thanks for the replies and advice..

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  7. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Hi Andy,

    I'm pleased to hear that you've finally found a plasma that you're very happy with - good choice! :p I hope to be getting a 433MXE next month when this long-awaited Key Digital card finally hits the dealers. Roll on April! :clap:

    Steve
     
  8. MAW

    MAW
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    In my experience you are right to be concerned about screen burn with the MXE, I've seen 2 examples recently, both less that 1 month old! PQ is amazing, but keep moving the logos! Anyone else seen this?
     
  9. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The factory defaults for contrast on the MXE's are madly too high. This, combined with what appears to be long decay phosphors, can lead to residual images on screen after switch off. I have mine turned down alot and still am paranoid about this. I am sure that if left on an image for a few hrs at standard contrast settings you could end up with a major problem.

    Setting contrast on plasma's is not an easy task. They do not bloom as the phosphor in each pixel is enclosed so cannot "expand". Blooming is an analogue artifact. The digital chassis's nowadays also do not usually show clipping of white's so that can't be used either. So when you turn up contrast you don't clip whites or get blooming you just blast the living daylights out of the little phosphor dot until it dies in agony screaming:devil: ......perhaps that's a bit harsh...

    So , in short, yes I believe it is an issue well worth being aware of.

    Gordon
     
  10. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello all

    One of my PDP-433HDE demo units was recently returned to me after an extended loan to a retail outlet in Edinburgh - I'd almost forgotten we had loaned it too them!

    The boys and girls in the shop had had the unit set up as part of a window display for a while and for at least a month had a piece of digital art work displayed on the screen day after day.

    As you may know the Pioneer HDE models dont have any form of screen saver software so the display took a bit of a hammering and when it arrived back with me it had two very clearly defined rectangular blocks that showed as slightly yellowed areas when you displayed a white screen, they were all but invisible on moving video but you could notice them every now and again if you looked for them.

    Its taken a while but having used this display elsewhere for about eight weeks now with full screen video running for about three hours each day the 'burn in' has all but disappeared and is now not visible unless you really look for it on a static all white background.

    Hope this gives you guys a bit of comfort.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  11. MAW

    MAW
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    That ties in with my findings, it gradually fades away till all but gone, but it scared the c***p out of me!
     
  12. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Bloody hell, got a shock earlier today, I've been messing about with settings (in the integrator menu mainly) since getting my MXE and thought I'd found some good settings, little did I realise just how much picture info I was missing with the settings I had. I changed to S-Video as I needed to see my amps on screen messages for setting my new gallos up and of course I hadn't bothered tweaking that input yet but it was a fairly dark scene and there was so much detail in the blacks visible on the S-Video input that had just been lost on INPUT1 (which I'd messed about with). Also INPUT1 had a definite green tinge to it which I hadn't really noticed until I saw the S-Video picture. Anyway I've put INPUT1 back to the defaults for now, think I'll have to be a little more careful and not change the settings as much, seemed to be reducing the brightness that had all but lost all detail in the blacks. Seems it's best to leave these things to the experts (Gordon, how much for a calibration btw, PM me about it please).

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  13. EffTee

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    Andy,

    Just to follow up on this thread - watching News 24 today I noticed that I was losing a bit of the top of the image in "Full" mode. This is pretty much what you said in your original post.

    I went into the integrator menu and shifted the image down a few notches. It's interesting that although you can make the image taller, you can't make it any shorter. So you seem to be limited to dropping it down a bit and losing some off the bottom. Having now done that, it looks very similar to the image position on my Philips widescreen TV.

    EffTee
     
  14. Paden

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    Thinking of getting myself one of these panels & was wondering if Sky via RGB->VGA looks significantly better than S-Video?
    Also do you view all Sky programmes in the "full" setting or do you switch between that & "wide" depending on the aspect ratio?

    Cheers, Paul
     
  15. philipb

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    The big difference i find between RGB-VGA and s-video on the 433 is that the colours in s-video are less well contained - you get some bleed around the edges. Generally the PQ is just not as good - brightness, sharpness etc. I could live with it if I had to, but I don't have to.

    RGB-VGA to my eyes gives the best results, followed closely by RGB-component. S-video is next, and I don't even consider composite. This applies to Sky digital and terrestrial digital - in fact the latter using a Nokia 221T is the best PQ of all. Channel for channel its better than Sky digital via a Panasonic digibox. I'm on the Oxford transmitter and get an 80%+ signal on digital terrestrial.
     
  16. DJP

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    Paden - I agree with philipb you will find that the PQ will be better if you use a quality converter to allow you to use either the VGA or the Component inputs.

    Unlike philipb I found the Component input to be slightly better than the VGA input. You may find the comparisons I did of interest, see;

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68373

    I should re-iterate that the PQ of S-Video, VGA and component is excellent it's just that it seems churlish (having spent so much money) not to go for the best PQ you can achieve.

    Derek
     
  17. Paden

    Paden
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    Thanks for the replies guys :smashin:
    Derek, a couple of further questions if you don't mind :D
    In the link you provided you talk about
    "The only problem is that the delay on Sky varies somewhat between channels and I haven't found a quick way of changing it on the Amp yet"
    Is this delay introduced by the format conversions?
    Does your 3803 convert different video formats & if so would this negate the need for the JS Converters mentioned?
    Finally earlier in this thread there's talk of incorrect aspect ratio when viewing Sky through VGA, is this only through VGA?

    Sorry for all the question :zonked:

    Cheers, Paul
     
  18. DJP

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    Okay, here goes;

    SKY+ delay - the delay refered to was the lip sync issue which can be found mentioned on several threads whereby the video is delayed more than the sound. This delay is partly caused by the Plasma itself and partly by the decoding in the SKY box.

    As far as I can tell there is little or no difference between the delay when using composite, RGB, RGB converted to VGA RGB, S-Video, RGB converted to Component.

    Neither of the conversion boxes (JS Technology Scart RGB to VGA or Scart RGB to Component) seem to add very much delay. Certainly not enough to be noticeable compared to that added by the Plasma and Sky.

    I must point out that I (and others) have noticed lip sync issues with Sky feeding a normal TV. There is variation of the amount of video delay depending on the channel and the program being broadcast.

    Since I posted in the other thread I have settled down on a delay of 90ms which seems to be a reasonable compromise although I do sometimes have to tweak this if the program is particularly poor. At least the 3803 give you this option rather than having to suffer permanently with lip sync issues.

    Other threads have discussed the use of seperate audio delay devices to compensate for this. However, as far as I know, all of the ones which have worked so far have used the normal audio out from the SKY box. As I use the optical output and want DD output when watching SKY Premier Widescreen this was not an option for me.


    3803 video upconversion - The 3803 can convert composite to S-Video, composite to component and S-Video to component. It can also switch these sources with there being many S-Video and composite inputs and 2 component inputs.

    So, in my case, I have the following set-up;
    DVD component -> Amp
    Sky+ Scart -> JS RGB-Component box -> Amp
    S-VHS VCR S-Video -> Amp
    Analogue Sat RX'er composite out -> Amp

    Amp component out -> Plasma

    For test and monitoring purposes I also have the composite and S-Video outputs going to the Plasma as well.

    The only time I find that I have to switch to a Plasma input other than Component is for the Analogue Sat RX'er whose sync is not that great and causes the 3803 upconversion some problems. I also have similar issues on occasion if the VCR is playing a non S-VHS tape.

    Do you still need a conversion box? Well, you could use the S-Video output from the Sky box to feed the Amp and use this to do the upconversion. However, as mentioned previously, you will not be getting the last few percent of picture quality this way.

    If you want to use the RGB output of the Sky box then - as far as I am aware - you will have to have some sort of convertor. There are special Scart to RGB+Sync leads available but I don't know of anyone who has used these with a 433MXE. If you want to go this route try before you buy :). Personally, given the amount of money spent on the plasma and leads I thought the JS boxes good value for money.


    Aspect Ratios - The Pio433MXE will not automatically change aspect ratios. So if your feed changes between 16:9 and 4:3 you will have to press the appropriate button on the remote to change the display setting.

    The understandable confusion which zAndy1 had was caused by the silly names which Pio choose for their screen displays.

    If the input the display is 16:9 then choose the FULL setting.
    If the input is 4:3 then either choose;
    ZOOM - expands the 4:3 picture to fill the screen but crops the top and bottom of the picture
    WIDE - stretches the sides of the 4:3 picture to fill the full display but still crops a little off the top and bottom of the picture.
    4:3 - displays the full 4:3 picture in the middle of the screen with grey vertical bars at the left and right hand side of the picture - note that the colour of the bars can be changed in the installer menu.

    I am investigating the possibility of making a simple auto switch circuit. This would take the pin 8 output from the SKY+ RGB Scart and feed this into a PIC or some other small micro. This would then output the appropriate code to switch the display using the RS232 input between FULL and, probably, WIDE. It looks relatively straight forward but I need to check that the SKY+ box outputs the pin 8 signals appropriately.

    Hope that the above helps.

    Derek
     
  19. Paden

    Paden
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    Top answer Derek :smashin:

    Thanks a lot, Paul
     

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