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Pioneer 2011 cutting out problem

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Jeffers01, Oct 14, 2003.

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  1. Jeffers01

    Jeffers01
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    I remember seeing threads on this before I bought my 2011....now it's my nightmare.

    I run a pair of mission 752's off my amp and the CD quality is just too bright (CD player - Marantz CD63). I decided to audition a couple of sets of new speakers the AE evo 3 and B&W 602.5 S3. The B&W's were a real improvement and the Evo 3's less so but both speakers cut my amp out at med/high volumes you would expect to use for a party (-7db on my set-up). Going back to the 752's gave no problems at all.
    Both speakers are nominally 8 ohm and 100 - 150Watts power handling.

    Does this mean I simply cant buy these speakers or can I do something like change the amp setting to 4 ohm? Advice needed please!!
     
  2. lawrenso

    lawrenso
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    How many ohms are your current speakers??
     
  3. wilber

    wilber
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    As a starting place, check all connections between amp and speakers - I suspect the speakers you are trying are more "hungry" than the existing ones and this could exagerate an existing problem - a stray strand of speaker cable touching the body of your receiver can cause problems.
     
  4. Jeffers01

    Jeffers01
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    My current 752's are 8 ohms also. The guy in the HiFi shop thought it was simply that the new speakers are slightly less efficient and therefore pulling too much current from the amp. What is annoying is that I thought the 2011 was a beast of an amp and should be able to cope....especially when you consider I'm using the bi - amp configuration instead of the EX set - up.
     
  5. Mogli

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    I would definitely check your cables though as if wires are touching the unit it will cut out. I had the same problem with my old yammy and after rewiring it - it never cut out at again.

    Maybe worth a try?
     
  6. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Most of the B&W ranges do tend to have fairly low impedances in the LF region,and this will give some amps a bit of headache.

    Since you can run your previous speakers without any problems,this does point to a speaker/amp interaction problem,and the load presented by the B&W's is quite possibly the cause....some reviewers have(rightly,I think)suggested treating them as a nominal 4ohm load.

    On the subject of "a beast" of an amp...there's a world of difference between the 100W delivered by some amps,and that from others e.g.mine are nominally 100W amps,but when tested they normally deliver close to 200W into 8 ohms ,and go all the way to over 800W into a 1ohm load....the power supplies of many AV amps can have difficulties delivering sustained high power levels.
     
  7. Jeffers01

    Jeffers01
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    Will setting the amp to 4 ohm help then? If that's the case why not always set the amp to 4 ohms and be done with it? I can feel a physics lesson coming on!
     
  8. alexs2

    alexs2
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    LOL....no physics lessons from me.....all I would suggest is to try it,as the 4 ohm switch on a number of amps simply limits the maximum power output to avoid current limiting into low loads.

    IMHO you won't find 4/8 ohm switches on power amps with suitably designed power supplies etc as they simply don't need them.
    Good power supplies are(unless of the switch-mode variety)heavy and expensive,and good switch-mode supplies are just expensive.....fitting all that into an AV receiver along with all the other goodies and keeping the price manageable leaves compromises along the way,usually in the difficult load department.
     
  9. Jeffers01

    Jeffers01
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    Thanks for your help guys. I'll definitely check the speaker cable for shorts and try the 4 ohm setting.
     
  10. alexs2

    alexs2
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    I've also just had a look at the 2011's spec,and noticed that it's power O/P is quoted as 7x 100W DIN....the Din spec is a very relaxed rating and is used by many manufacturers as a way of making their power output figures look good.
    On average 100W DIN would equate to about 70-80W RMS....you may also notice the RMS power is quoted at 120W but 10%THD...Pioneer really should just rate the box at what it can do on all 7 channels,fully driven,at 1% or less distortion.....as I said before,a lot comes back to power supply design,and cooling considerations.
     
  11. wilber

    wilber
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    Forgot to mention that my little bruvver has B&W 602 S3 front, 600 S3 surround (don't know about centre but it isn't B&W) + Pioneer 811 (just like mine) & they drive with no bother at all. There's no way that the 2011 should not cope with them (even if you take the 100W figure with a hefty pinch of salt)
     
  12. alexs2

    alexs2
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    I do agree with that,although the problem may lie with the levels that Jeffers01 was looking for...i.e. party level,which is always going to give the amp's power supply a bit of a work-out...I think the fact that it's OK with other speakers may also bear that out.
     
  13. wilber

    wilber
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    alexs2 - my comment wasn't aimed as in any way contradicting what you said (TBH I didn't even read your comment :blush: ) - I had forgotten to put that in my first post and felt it might help the trouble shooting process.
     
  14. alexs2

    alexs2
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    wilber....no problems,it wasn't taken that way at all...I just thought that he may have been asking more than the amp was capable of giving!
     
  15. Jeffers01

    Jeffers01
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    Thanks for you attention to this guys. I think I may be asking for more than the amp is capable of, but I'm very surprised. I do remember a couple of older threads that reported this effect as a problem with this amp at high listening levels. There was some feeling that it was a fault on early American models but had been solved long ago. For the first time in my life I guess I'm going to have to audition potential replacement speakers with this particularly in mind. It may cut down my choice dramatically. Its probably worth a call to Pioneer.
     
  16. wilber

    wilber
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    Re other speakers - Kef Q wonderful speakers and easy to drive (but they need a sub to go with them)
     
  17. Gatto

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    Not that I am 100% sure, but early Pioneer models within the Elite range etc. had the cut off sensing circuitry set too sensitive therfore the cut off would immediately be triggered with low impedance speakers and heat build ups. This was set to more realistic levels in later and current models!
     
  18. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Certainly worth a call to Pioneer,but I think the answer may be the same.
    In overall terms,it's not an especially powerful amp,but it does have 7 channels,and there are compromises to be made in various areas to accomadate the extra channels.
     
  19. Andywilliams

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    Hi Alexs2
    So if i buy a 7 channel amp(been looking at the denon avc-a11sr)to drive my m&ks 4ohm speaker load and only ever using 5.1, power will be better supplied as not having to drive two extra channels correct?
    Cheers Gonzo.
     
  20. alexs2

    alexs2
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    In many cases,gonzo,yes....if the amp is a bit lacking in the power supply area....the AVC-A11SR is actually pretty good in that respect and from memory has little problem with that.
     
  21. Jeffers01

    Jeffers01
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    This is another reason why I am surprised over this issue as I have my speaker biamped using this ability within the Pioneer. The manual says this delivers more power (as you would expect) so imagine how early the unit would have cut out if the same amp was driving both the bass unit and the tweater, although it's true that the tweater pulls relatively low current.
     
  22. alexs2

    alexs2
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    As you say,in overall terms,the tweeter's power draw is relatively small,and the real gain is from using a separate channel for bass and treble information,with less interaction between the 2.
    I still think the problem lies with the amps not being able to deliver sufficient "grunt" for partying,into some loads.
     
  23. darren7

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    there has been problems with the 2011 cutting out only on medium levels, it does not even sound to me that you are running it all that hard.



    I think it will be one of2 things, as said before a stray strand. or the amp has developed a fault.

    have you fixed it?

    Darren
     

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