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Pio XDE filter Fault, problems with service, Help!

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by -Hitman-, Jul 5, 2005.

  1. -Hitman-

    -Hitman-
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    I posted a while back that i had come across a problem with the plastic screen filter on the XDE in the way that pinkish marks had started appearing in the form of blotches and crayon like marks that could be seen as the reflection from the window behind us showed them up.

    The effect was to the left side of the screen and i reported it to Pioneer to ask if this was normal but they told me to contact the nearest service centre to get it checked out.

    They came and took it away and contacted me a 2 weeks later to say that it was working within spec.

    The marks where in a small area to the left side and not really noticeable, only when the screen was switched off, so i got the screen back.

    Well as 2 weeks passed the problem got a lot worse, marks and blotches were appearing all other the screen and starting to be seen even when the screen was on during the daytime.

    I then contacted the retailer to say that the problem was a lot worse and now unacceptable, so he got the service centre to pick it up again.

    A week later they said that Pioneer say that it is working within spec, i contacted the retailer and demanded something was done as it is a fault.

    He said that the he would contact the Pio tech engineer to come and look at the screen but they where having trouble getting a date from Pioneer.

    It has been 3 weeks and still no phone call, i'm really P---ed off as i have been without it for so long.

    Does anyone know what i can do about this, is there a time limit as to how long they can keep the plasma?

    I have posted pics of the problem below for you to look at and i definitely don't believe that this is within spec and is a fault with the filter!

    What do you think?


    What can/should i do about this?

    Thanks for reading, i know its a bit long.

    Regards.

    Dr.
     

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  2. S2K DG

    S2K DG
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    It looks like an anti-reflection coating is lifting to me?

    Make as much noise as you can, definately a fault.
     
  3. Chewbacca

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    I had a problem once with a PC manufacture cut a long story short I was messed around for weeks on end eventually I went to My local trading standards they soon sorted the problem out

    Secondly I was told that because the PC was on finance at the time I could claim against the finance company as well because the item that I had financed was either not working some of the time or some days not working at all.

    I do hope You get this sorted out ASAP My Friend
     
  4. FaxFan2002

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    Have you tried going directly to Pio support rather than the dealer? That would be my first port of call.
     
  5. -Hitman-

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    The first thing i did at the start was contact pioneer service and it is their authorised service centre who took the panel for the first inspection and also have the panel now.

    Thanks for your support guys, much appreciated! :)

    I think i am go to the retailer with these pictures in hand and demand something be done about it here and now.

    I have only had the screen since Feb and i have had it in a workshop for over month in total, spending nearly 3 grand for it , i expect to have a TV that is fault free and not in a workshop gathering dust until a relations officer arrives some day.

    The retailer advertises on this forum so i will let you know how they deal with this one and i will be mentioning to them that i am a member of AVforums!!

    Cheers again.

    Dr.
     
  6. Chewbacca

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    Good look Dr :thumbsup:
     
  7. -Hitman-

    -Hitman-
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    Still having problems with getting this panel sorted out,

    Retailer has been good at trying to liase with Pioneer but Pioneer service are saying this problem is normal and that it is evident on all 435's, which i find hard to believe as i have not seen this on any other 435 that i've looked at.

    We have asked for this report in writing but Pio are delaying and we have not recieved anything in writing as promised via email.

    I think they are trying to fob this off and i don't know what to do.

    What can you do if the manufacturer says this is in spec and not faulty but clearly it is.

    Anyone help or any advise on this one, please!

    Dr.
     
  8. FaxFan2002

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    I must admit if I get sunlight shining thru my windows I can see something like you have. However nowhere near as bad as what you are seeing.
    I'll have a closer look and let you know.

    Having said that if pioneer release a screen that cannot be used opposite a window that is south facing or has direct sunlight coming in I suggest that you could return the unit quite easily...
     
  9. -Hitman-

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    Thing is though the window is east facing, so no sunlight actually gets through the window only natural light.

    Seen a few XDE's in shop windows and they are all fine!

    Anyone else experiencing this problem?

    Dr.
     
  10. -Hitman-

    -Hitman-
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    Just received a nice call from the retailers and they say that the Pioneer service consultant is going to call me tomorrow to discuss this problem and has a few suggestions!

    I will be looking forward to it, doubt he will be able to cure these marks as they are permanent, no matter what you do with the source signal or screen calibrations!

    Will let you know what happens!

    Dr.
     
  11. FaxFan2002

    FaxFan2002
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    I also see it with a light switched on reflected via a mirror opposite the screen - has to be very dark scenes and move my head around a bit.
     
  12. -Hitman-

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    Hi,


    Are you seeing a pinkish/Purple haze as this is normal! or can you see large random blotch marks and the crayon like scratch marks at different parts of the screen like in the pictures i posted.

    You may need to adjust the brightness and contrast of the pictures slightly to show up thes marks in more detail.

    I've attached one for you to look at, notice that under the blotch on the right there is some faint circular marks (crayon marks) which are hard to get on camera, these are all over the screen.

    Does your screen resemble this:


    Cheers, Dr.
     

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  13. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Dr HTPC

    Just a horrible thought!!!

    What have you been cleaning the screen with (if anything) or is anyone else likely to be cleaning the screen when your not around!!!

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  14. -Hitman-

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    This is a coating problem (on my panel it is between the plasma panel and the plastic front filter), wouldn't put it down to a video source as this would more likely be screen burn and this is definatley not but in your case it could be a phosphour coating problem.

    Good luck with Panasonic, i hope you manage to get things sorted out!

    Looks like most manufacturers are a real pain when it comes to service!

    Cheers!



    Hi,

    It was the first thing i thought of but i have only used recommended plasma clene and certain parts of the screen are mark free and so it rules cleaning out.

    Missus definately won't touch it either, she's been told the score :rotfl: !

    Cheers Joe!

    Dr.
     
  15. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Dr HTPC

    Not sure about the 'recommended' cleaner you mention - Pioneer say use a damp cloth!

    If you have staining problems and are trying to highlight them use a PC to generate an all white image - that usually shows up any issues.

    I haven't seen the issue you describe on an XDE and if it is the Filter delaminating from the rear of the front screen then it looks like a bucket case to me!

    Its not uncommon to see some minor discoloration within 'whites' early on in the life of most Displays but not as you describe this fault.

    Hopefully you get sorted out.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  16. -Hitman-

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    Joe,

    There is nothing wrong with the panel electronically, these marks are less noticable when the plasma is on and test patterns show nothing up, no changes in colour etc...

    Its at its worst when the panel is actually turned off and if you look very closly at the marks you can see that they are behind the plastic filter.

    Plasmaclene is only distilled water and comes with a superfine microfibre cloth.

    When you say "bucket case" what do you mean?

    Regards,

    Dr.
     
  17. MAW

    MAW
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    Bucket case = ready for the bin. If the filter is delaminating, or discoloured, then there's no cure. It could be that Pioneer are testing your mettle over this. They won't want to replace it obviously. Personally I have no doubts about your ability to fight your own corner! My sympathies are with you on this one, just in case you had any doubts
     
  18. -Hitman-

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    No doubts whatsoever, Martin. :)

    I know Pioneer are trying it on and testing me, they have been a bit strange with this especially when the Retailer and i asked for their conclusion in writing via email!

    The Pioneer rep has said to the Retailer that instead, he will call me personally today and has some idea's on how to reduce or cure this problem, which i doubt very much as you and i know that this is a permenent filter fault!

    We'll see what happens, if he ever rings, still waiting here!

    Thanks dude!

    Dr.
     
  19. -Hitman-

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    Received a call from the Pioneer rep at 17.00 and he said that he'd reproduced the effect on one of their XDE's and that it was not a fault and this effect is on all these plasmas.

    I asked him to describe what he had produced and it was the normal pink colour cloud effect that can be seen when light reflects on the panel.

    I told him, yes this is normal on the XDE's but my problem is different due to the crayon like marks as well as the independent blotches that where scattered around most of the screen and that part of the screen was mark free.

    He would not agree that my panel was suffering from something different and he was convinced that he had produced the exact same effect in his workshop apart from the crayon like marks.

    I said that this was not the case with my panel and he said that i can take this further, i replied that i would and he put the phone down!

    I then rang the retailer and told him about the conversation and he said that he would contact them again and maybe i will have to write to Pioneer.

    He also stated that if the manufacturer would not change their decision he won't be able to do anything to get the panel replaced.

    I now await a call from the retailer!

    Looks like a court jobby is on the way!

    Pain in the ass! :mad:
     
  20. Dave911

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    Dr
    It would appear that pioneer are really digging their heels in on this one - I wonder if this is actualy a problem with all their sets and they do not want to replace it as it may open a can of worms for them.
    May I draw your attention to the sale of goods act 1979 http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm this link gives you a brief resume of what it entails. If you feel that the item is not what you thought it would be and that a 'normal' person would reasonably say this then you may have a case. A lot depends on how the fault? manifests itself ie it is a tv and it should show pictures to a high standard - if it is doing this then that may be an issue - however if you buy a car its purpose is to provide transport, but if the paint goes blotchy and starts delaminating then I think anyone would say that is not correct.
    If you noticed Chewbacca mentioned at the begining of this thread that he contacted trading standards - I would suggest that this is a good idea as they will be able to advise you properly.
    In the mentime I would get something in writing to pioneer - sent it recorded delivery - and tell them in full detail what the problem is - why you do not feel it is satisfactory and what are they going to do about it. If you end up in the small claims court you will need all the paperwork you can to evidence what you have done.
    This may be a long arduous task, but hopefully you will be successful. Remember Pioneer has a good standing in the AV world and they do not want to lose that - threads like this do them no good at all :nono:

    COME ON PIONEER I KNOW YOU READ THESE THREADS GIVE HIM A NEW TV YOU MISERABLE B@*%!RS. :thumbsdow

    Dave
     
  21. -Hitman-

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    Hi Dave,

    Thank you for the info mate,

    I have already conacted trading standards and done a lot of reading on their site.

    My complaint has been logged and passed to my local office and i am waiting for them to contact me.

    I am also waiting for a call back from the retailer as they are also trying to contact Pioneer again, which i think will probably end with me writing to Pioneer as the retailer mentioned that i will need to do this, if they still don't budge.

    Cheers!
     
  22. -Hitman-

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    Got a call from my local trading standards office yesterday and they advised me to get the screen back and get an independent tv engineer to assess the fault and write in to the retailer, giving him two weeks to rectify the fault.

    I rang a colleague of mine who is the tv technician (Ex sony Engineer) for our company and he agreed to assess the problem, so i rang the retailer about this and he agreed with me using our technician.

    I rang the service centre and asked them to return the panel for an inspection.

    Panel was returned this morning and after we had put it back up on the wall, i noticed hundreds of fine scratches all over the black surround which looked like it had been caused by the rough looking canvas carry bag they brought it in and so i also checked the media box closely and found scratches on that too! :mad:

    I immediately rang the retailer and when he spoke to the delivery guy he was trying to deny it and act dumb, so i got the other guy to look and he saw some of the the scratches, this was a real pain, why were they trying to deny everything and make it very difficult for me to report it, i wasn't having any of it.

    I eventually managed to get the guy to sign the paperwork as unacceptable delivery due to scratch damage,

    This has just really complicated things. :mad:

    I am now awaiting the retailer to get back to me with what will happen now, pain in the ass. :mad:

    This is just getting worse and worse for me! :suicide:
     
  23. MAW

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    Dr, your expeience is strangely mirrored by shane515 with a Hitachi. So closely it's spooky in fact! He's at precisely the same point as you, set returned damaged. Wonder if it's the same retailer. His is a hitachi, perhaps you should find his thread and email/pm him to find out.
     
  24. -Hitman-

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    Had a look other at the post you mentioned!

    looks like we have 2 different faults same journey!

    I will be in touch with shane515 to offer any help i can!

    Its a fustrating time for both of us!

    Thanks mate for the info!

    Dr.
     
  25. -Hitman-

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    myersfan73,

    Thanks for the support mate! :)

    I paid for mine with a normal switch cash card for which i have no cover.

    It looks like a few of us are going through this!

    If you need any help/support Pm me anytime!

    Good luck and i hope we all get everthing sorted out.

    I've got a spare 29" Sony you can borrow if things get bad! :smashin:

    Regards,

    Dr.
     
  26. MAW

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    Nice one Dr, you see what I mean. Whilst the actual fault differs, well it would cos his is not a Pioneer, the whole way of carrying on is horribly similar. If it were the same retailer, suspiciously similar.
     

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