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Pio 668

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by joys_R_us, Nov 24, 2003.

  1. joys_R_us

    joys_R_us
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    Anybody with hands on experience ??

    I expect it to perform (video !) better than the 868 as together with the Plasma 434 the scaling will be performed only once ...

    Anybody with 868 tried the picture without scaling to 720 p ?

    Thx for any replies. I am holding my order back until some clear feedback is provided (confused by the discussion about 868)
     
  2. MTJ

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    joys_r-us,

    I asked a question in one of the other threads about why you should buy the 868 vs the 668 if you were connecting to a 434. Didn't get a clear response.

    Like you I think there is no point in buying the 868.... unless someone can tell us differently.

    Mark
     
  3. Brogan

    Brogan
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    AFAIK, the 868 has the following features which the 668 does not:
    iLINK
    Hi-Bit Conversion
    Legato Link Conversion PRO
    Video DAC 216 MHZ/14-Bit (668 is 12-Bit)
    HDMI with Two-Dimensional Resolution Expander Videoscaler ic

    I don't understand why you expect the 668 to perform better with video than the 868 when the 868 has a better video DAC and the TREX scaler (which you don't have to use).
     
  4. joys_R_us

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    14 bit / 12-bit I reject to participate in this numbers' game. There is much more to PQ than these numbers.

    But yes u r right, the 868 shouldn't be worse than 668 once you shut down the T-Rex. But then again, why in the first place should I buy it? I am not interested in even higher audio quality.

    Just looking for top video Q
     
  5. Brogan

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    Well I guess you've answered your own question then.
    If you believe the PQ from the 668 will be better even with a lower spec' video DAC and you don't need or want the additional features of the 868 then go for it.
    But judging by some of the comments from other members, the Pioneer DVD's are rubbish as far as video is concerned and you should steer well clear of them.

    I was merely pointing out the differences in spec' between the 2 players.
    Only you can decide which one is best for you.

    Personally I can't hear the difference between anolog, iLINK, co-ax or optical audio from my 868 but I still bought it.
    Why? Because I wanted to.

    With regards to the "numbers game", all other things being equal between the 668 and 868 then a higher spec' video DAC would have to give better results, unless of course Pioneer screwed up and reduced the quality when they increased the spec'.
     
  6. rscott4563

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    Toys R Us

    Lets say your right and feeding the 434 at a higher resolution makes no difference (not that anyone knows yet, no HDMI cables) and lets say your right and the numbers mean nothing 12bit versus 14bit DAC, surely then if both players which will obviously be based on basically the same components, but one being a mid range and the other being the company's high end player, the higher end player will give the best quality output video or audio as the construction should be better and the components that do differ will be of a slightly better quality, however slight the difference will be....

    So to say that the 668 will be better seems a bit of a strange comment??

    The fact that you may feel it is for your own purposes (as in you dont want a scaler or the improved audio performance) a better value for money option would be a more sensible statement.
     
  7. Lygren

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    I've just picket up my new 668 Pioneer, and the image and sound quality seems thus fas very pleasing. However, I need to make this thing sone free, as most of my films are region one. I have read some posts on a looooong row of numbers that need to be input to a learning remote... Is there no easier method? I've read that perhaps a CD could do the job?
     
  8. joys_R_us

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    thx for your comments.

    My main goal for this thread was to get info on the video performance of the 668. I just cant imagine that Pioneer with some highly regarded DVD players (747, 757) would be producing s h i t. So the question for me was and still is :

    Are the problems (seen?) with 868 are due to scaling etc. (see above) and does the 668 perform comparably to other same price class dvd players ?

    (I bought the Pio 434 among others for the HDMI connection and am having problems to accept that the Pio HDMI DVD players are crap)

    @Lygren: Can you be more precise than just saying "thus far very pleasing" ?
     
  9. Brogan

    Brogan
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    I guess the 668 to 868 comparison would be on a par with the AX5i and AX10i comparison.
    The AX5i is hardly a poor machine but it is less equipped than and 2nd best to the flagship model.
    Same goes for the 668.
     
  10. Lygren

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    Image quality is very good, the same is sound. I use full Pioneer, with the AX5i receiver and the 810 speaker set. I use a Panasonic plasma, however, as Pioneer's contrast is still a bit too low for my taste.

    Anyhow, the menu's are intuitive, as well as packed with all the advanced setting-possibilities you would need.

    In my opinion, the image seems just as good or better than any of the Philips Faroduja based players. It takes heads down my radeon based PC, perhaps not that much video-wize, but the sound is soo much clearer and accurate with this player!

    I have only seen one film this far, so my impressions are only initial, I may find some "fault" as I get to test it a bit more.

    De design is also very nice, looks and feels expensive!
     
  11. joys_R_us

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    If the 668 is as good as a dvd player as the AX5i is as an AV-receiver I would order one immediately...
     
  12. gandley

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    to compare the 868 to the ax10 is an absolute joke.

    made me laff though

    in quality term id say it matches the 2011.
    so to say the 686 is as good as an ax5 is highly optimistic
     
  13. Brogan

    Brogan
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    If both of you had taken the time to read my post correctly you would have realised that I said the comparison between DVD players is on a par with the comparison between receivers.

    I did not compare the 868 with the AX10i!
    Why would I? One is a DVD player one is a receiver.:rolleyes:

    the 668 and 868 are Pioneers top 2 players.
    The AX5i and AAX10i are Pioneers top 2 receivers.

    Muppets!
     
  14. gandley

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    yes i knew what u meant, but the other chap got the wrong end of the stick so my reply was aimed there.:nono:

    as for flagship models. maybe for pioneer but more like tug boats

    Muppet
     
  15. joys_R_us

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    I wish you a safe and enjoyable trip on your way to PJ land.

    BTW: What does the missy say to the PJ ?
    (now we are getting really off topic ! :laugh: )

    Welcome to the muppets show !
     
  16. Brogan

    Brogan
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    I've calmed down now.
    I blame the M25...
     
  17. gandley

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    she luvs the idea.

    took here to the demos. i was so dissapointed with the quality of the new pio plasmas. not much better than my old 503hde that i demoed a PJ and was blown away by the amazing colours and fine detail.(domino20)
    have now got a H56 until i can get the new marantz pj.

    Oh and i have to take her to the grand canyon as a sweetner
     
  18. Costas

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    Guys,

    Here is something that I hope it helps...at least is my honest opinion on what my eyes witnessed last night. I went to my friend's who has just received the new 868 with his 434. Due to his work on design (long story) he had a 668 on loan available. I brought with me my 757 and we tested all three. We had three other people in the "audience". The five of us felt the same in making the following simple statement:

    Using component connection:

    - The 868 had the best picture of the three
    - The 757 was a close second
    - The 668 was not even as good at the 757

    We do not know if truly the 668 we had was indeed typical of final Pioneer production. However, we felt strongly that this player is definitely well below the 757 and far away from the 868.
    It has "duller softer" picture which is a huge contrast to the other two. Perhaps when an HDMI cable is available there may be some difference.

    Someone said earlier you buy an 868 because you want it. I have on order an 868 for my 434 because I believe it is better!!
     
  19. joys_R_us

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    Great work, great post Costas, thx very much.

    This kind of posts is the reason for me to stick around here in this forum.

    Now I am thinking of buying a "transitory" (very) cheap dvd player before sinking real money on a good one. Don't have a dvd player and am proud of never having owned a vcr :blush: :rolleyes:
     
  20. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Guys,

    Surely the spec of the DAC is only relevant when using the analogue outputs - i.e. Digital to Analogue Converter.

    Steve
     
  21. Brogan

    Brogan
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    True.
    And some of the other additional (audio) features do not apply to the iLINK interface.
    Still doesn't stop me buying the 868 over the 668.
    The total is more than the sum of its parts hopefully and overall the quality should be higher.
     
  22. joys_R_us

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    A whole industry is living on that hope of you customers...:devil:
     
  23. Brogan

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    Hope? Hardly.
    It is generally a rule of thumb that the more expensive a product and the higher specification it is, from the same range, the better quality it is.

    I'm having real problems understanding your attitude towards the 868.

    You start a thread stating that you expect the 668 to outperform the 868 even though it has a lower specification and is cheaper by several hundred pounds.

    It has been confirmed as being inferior by other forum members that have tested it and yet you still continue to argue.

    Fine. If that's the way you feel then why bother starting the thread?

    Costas has answered your original question so if you still want to buy the 668, go ahead.
     
  24. joys_R_us

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    No !

    I appreciate this post of Costas very much. But I will check the HDMI connection.

    I don't want to dig too deep into arguments but what I was actually trying to say was that the picture probs of 868 might be due to the T-rex scaling (only valid with plasmas with their own scaling ?) and all comparisons I made with 668 were of course to be understood on a price adjusted basis.

    Sorry for not having been precise enough...
     
  25. Brogan

    Brogan
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    What picture problems?
    As Costas has posted above, the 868 PQ was much better than the 668.
     
  26. joys_R_us

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    There is a separate thread with 14 pages further down...
     
  27. Brogan

    Brogan
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    But that thread compares the 868 to other brands, not the 668 which is what your original question was...
     
  28. Paul D

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    Guys Guys calm down.

    I think "joys_R_us" was "trying" to point out that the 668 may perform better than the 868 when feeding the Pioneer plasma in 480/576(i)or(p).
    When than the 868 feeding it 720p(pre-scaled) etc.(even though the 868 can also feed 480/576 etc)

    I think the point missed was why pay the extra cost for the 868, when sending 480/576 would only be scaled once by the display, instead of 720p having to be upscaled twice (first to 720p by the DVD player, then to 768p by the display)

    The "question" left remains which would be best?

    DVD scales to 720 then the display to 768 (twice)

    DVD ouputs 480/576 the display scales to 768 (once)

    OR!!!

    The DVD scales to 1080i then the display DOWN converts to 768!(twice)

    People have tried this 1080i to 768/720 down scale route, and it has been suprisingly good by all accounts. (even though in theory it shouldn't be!)

    Maybe even though there is no more actual picture info on offer, sending 1080i gives the display a bigger picture to look at making down scaling easier/more accurate???

    Why do plasmas have (Panasonic 1366)(Pioneer 1024)x768 in the first place, rather than 1280x720?
    Something to do with computer resolutions ie you can display 1024x768 in 1-1 pixel mapping.(Pioneer have non square pixels)

    Take all this banter about what's best with a pinch of salt. People will NEVER agree on what's best.

    I highly rate the 868i, others WILL disagree.
    Am i happy with it?
    Yes!
    Are there better DVD players out there?
    Yes!
    Do i give a sh*t?
    No... :smashin:
     
  29. Brogan

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    Well said Paul but what he actually said was the 868 would be worse than the 668 which I have trouble understanding. :confused:
    Granted it may be no better but I can't understand how it could ever be worse...

    I'm with you on this though:
    I highly rate the 868i, others WILL disagree.
    Am i happy with it?
    Yes!
    Are there better DVD players out there?
    Yes!
    Do i give a sh*t?
    No...


    And by all accounts, according to Claus, the PQ with HDMI is stunning. :smashin: :D
     

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