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pio 50mxe1 and 50hz native dvi

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by bartbs, Jun 21, 2004.

  1. bartbs

    bartbs
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    I found some info on the frame rate convertion option of the Pio50MXE1.
    (see the pdf attachment) The way i read it, is that it will accept a 50hz (49.861 hz) pc signal from a scaler without converting it to 60 or 70hz.
    I am not sure i got this right? Any info?
    Thanks,
    Bart
     

    Attached Files:

  2. SimonO

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    What about the rest of the document..? Or at least page 166..! I agree it should accept a native resolution 50Hz signal without conversion... However if this is important to you I would wait for someone to actually try it before you buy..!
     
  3. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    We know it can accept the signals it's what it does that's the issue. Does it let it display at 50 or does it do FRC to 100Hz which is suggested in another Pioneer document.

    Time will tell I guess.

    Gordon
     
  4. bartbs

    bartbs
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    SimonO,

    I do not have the rest of the document. This i what i got from Pioneer.
    Bart
     
  5. probeski

    probeski
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    Does FRC to 100Hz degrade the quality? I thought 100 being a miutiple of 25 would be okay and might be better than 50Hz because it's refreshing twice as fast.
     
  6. Triggaaar

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    Hi Gordon

    What do you mean, time will tell? Do I take it that you haven't had time to try it?
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Yes I tried it at Joe's and it looked good. It looked like 50-100Hz to me as I couldn't see flicker. It was the best solution for 50Hz progressive in to a plasma I've seen so far.

    Gordon
     
  8. probeski

    probeski
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    Can you please confirm if this is when using DVI?
     
  9. Triggaaar

    Triggaaar
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    Oh I see. I'm running Mode 2 at the moment (converting 50Hz to 100) and I'm not seeing a flicker.
     
  10. Triggaaar

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    Probeski,

    It's not related to the input method (s-video, comp, DVI). For normal viewing, you can choose between 2 modes:
    Mode 1 - 50 & 60 Hz are converted to 70Hz
    Mode 2 - 50 Hz is converted to 100 Hz, 59.94 & 60 Hz are left untouched

    EDIT - just re read the initial question: Not sure if it would be any different if for a signal from a PC, but I don't see why it would.

    Annoyingly, Split screen and PiP does not work with Mode 2, and switching back to mode 1 isn't a simple button (hold display for 4 seconds, select menu, go to relevent tab, select FRC mode, select 1, set, go back to viewing select split screen, then do it all again to go back). Very irritating.:
     
  11. SimonO

    SimonO
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    Just for the record, out of the box my 43MXE1 doesn't flicker at all except for static images via VGA...
     
  12. Triggaaar

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    No, I don't notice a flicker either, which I guess isn't surprising, as the screen is converting 50Hz to 70Hz (out of the box). What you may get, is visual artefacts, which may occur less when the frame rate is converted to 100Hz.
     
  13. probeski

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    There are many posts stating that the Panasonic DVI blades only accept 50Hz at 575p max. I'm not sure if anyone has confirmed and tested if the Pioneers DVi will allow 720p or even a pixel perfect custom resolution of 768p using HTPC at 50Hz. If anyone could answer this it would be much appreciated.
     
  14. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I am pretty sure that Joe and I did pixel for pixel a 59.94Hz and 50Hz in to both 434 and 50 mxe's using a Lumagen HDP via DVI.....

    G
     
  15. probeski

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    That's good news, looks like the Pioneer 50MXE1 will be the plasma of choice for me with a HTPC :zonked:.
    It would be great if anyone could confirm that such a setup works with absolute certainty when they get a chance... thanks.
     
  16. Urotsukidoji

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    I thought it had non square pixels?
     
  17. Triggaaar

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    I bought my 50MXE1 on the understanding that it does exactly that - accept pixel for pixel at 50Hz in. Gordon is about to pop down here with a Lumagen HDP and set it up as such. Aren't you Gordon! :)

    Will obviously report our success.
     
  18. Triggaaar

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    There are pros and cons of all displays. Non square pixels doesn't result in a poor picture.
     
  19. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    If I said it did it then I have done it. Running around so much just now that it's hard to keep track. Confident all will be fine when I install the thing on behalf of your dealer.

    G
     
  20. probeski

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    let us know how it goes.
    When you say it has non-square pixels, do you mean it is a slightly streched image? Is this only an issue for the windows desktop and why this is the case?
    Can this problem be avoided by changing to a different resolution with letterboxing?
     
  21. Urotsukidoji

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    Yes, clearly, but it does result in an irregular picture format when using a HTPC. Fine if you use a scaler which caters for non square pixels, but I didn't think windows could?
     
  22. Triggaaar

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    It was Joe that assured me it could be done, so his blood if it can't :) I'm sure all will be wonderful just as soon as those Lumagens arrive.

    No, it's not about a stretched image (aspect ratio will be fine) but that for a section of screen say 1 foot by 1 foot, the number of pixels vertically doesn't match the number horizontally. I don't suppose anyone would be able to tell the difference, unless their face was against the screen.
     
  23. Triggaaar

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    I see what you mean. I'm not going to be using an HTPC to start with, but assumed it would take the info from DVD, and then map it to whatever number of pixels you told it to (within reason), including non square pixels. Is there no software for the PC that can handle pixel mapping to non square pixels?
     
  24. probeski

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    Powerstrip will output 1280X768 pixels to match pixels 1:1, I don't see how a scaler caters for non square pixels and not a HTPC? Once again, can you tell me if this problem is noticed for all applications or only HTPC (if so which ones) and can this be fixed at all. More info about this or links would be good; i'm not sure i completely understand.
     
  25. Urotsukidoji

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    I don't know that much about it either to be honest.

    Its all about 1:1 mapping. If you map a HTPC to 1280X768, that is 1280X768 SQUARE pixels. The pioneer then fits these pixels into the plasmas 16:9 ratio (remember 1280X768 is not 16:9) and you get a 1280X768 image made to into 16:9 (squishes).

    I use ps to get native rate on my Fujitsu panasonic clone and I could't see any option for non square pixels. The difference between 1:1 mapping and everything else is HUGE on my plasma.

    Anyway, surely someone must have an mxe-1 and a htpc?
     
  26. Triggaaar

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    That's not my understanding. I don't think you actually need to worry about what shape the pixel are. If you're worried about it (ie buying an MXE1) go to the HTPC forum.

    I will obviously bow to knowledge from someone who's tried this, but this is my understanding:
    The PC/Scaler will receive a 16:9 picture from the DVD. If it can then map that picture to 1280x768, then it won't be mapping SQUARE pixels, as that's not possible. It will will perfect on a 16:9 size plasma with 1280x768 pixels.

    The PC/Scaler wouldn't worry about the shape of each pixel (thinking they must be square) but instead, just divide the entire picture by the number of pixels (ie start with a picture 16x wide, divide by 1280, and that's the width of each pixel - 9x/768 and that's the height of each pixel. So they won't be square).
    As said, I wouldn't expect you to have to say they're not square. Does it state they should be square?
     
  27. Urotsukidoji

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    Yes, but I believe we were talking about a HTPC, and unless all you are going to do is watch dvds, windows and programs will be working with sqaure pixels. If I switch my crt monitor to 1280x768, I wont have a widescreen image. If my plasma had non square pixels I would still see the same 1280x768 pixels, but stretched to fit to 16:9. I would need a widescreen monitor with a 16:9 resolution such as 1366x768. Panasonics have this resolution and I think when it comes to using a HTPC, a true 16:9 resolution is a must.

    There has been so much talk of problems with 1:1 mapping and non square pixels, how can this be true?

    I got this from a "pixel perfect 1:1 mapping faq":

     
  28. Liam @ Prog AV

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    On a 1024 x 768 *16:9* panel you will see a windows desktop stretched all fat and short since we are talking about widening a 4:3 signal onto a 16:9 pallette where the pixels have just been stretched sideways to fit.

    Now the same is true for the 50" but the effect is tiny, instead of stretching a 4:3 signal to fit a 16:9 orientation you are stretching a 16:9.6 signal to fit a 16:9 orientation. The video processor portion of a scaler or HCPC will have no problem compensating, and the windows desktop will be stretched by such a tiny factor you will hardly even notice. The signal itself will still be perfectly pixel matched to the plasma and will be the sharpest you could get it.
     
  29. Loafer316

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    I have he 43MXE1...looks like no hope for me then...oh well! i've been running the PC on the plasma and yeah the windows desktop is sqiushed but when playing dvd's it not noticable. I've heard theatertek and zoomplayer can compensate for this...i have zoomplayer but have no idea how to set the resolution correctly for the rectangle pixels. any help would be great.

    I'll download powerstrip and see what i can make of it...not sure if it will help though.

    thxs
     
  30. MAW

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    With an HTPC it works. You'll want powerstrip to customise relolution and timing, though some cards are good enough without it these days.
     

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